Daytrading E-Minis w/o Indicators

Discussion in 'Index Futures' started by jasper6, Sep 12, 2002.

  1. It always starts out the same, "Indicators? No, I use to use them, but not any more."

    Then they proceed to tell you all the indicaotrs they use now.

    Now all I use is price and volume (ok that's 2)
    And I just watch the Dow Jones (3)
    And the tick and trin (4 and 5)
    Keep an eye on the cash index and the prem (Now we are up to 7 indicators from a guy who claims he doesn't use them anymore.)
    I have a chart for reference (that's 8 and here comes 9)
    But I just use it peg support and resistance.
    Maybe a few basic patterns (that's 10 and we haven't even gotten to news and moving averages)

    Gosh I feel kind of inadaquate, I could never follow all those indicators, I'm lucky to just keep up with 4 or 5 like Bollinger Bands, dmi, rsi...
    #41     Sep 13, 2002
  2. jasper6


    Profitseer, always enjoy your posts. I think by indicators here we are referring to those indicators that mathematically manipulate price. These would include EMA, CCI, STO, MACD, etc. TRIN and TICK, for example, are "indicators" but they are not a manipulation of price. They are based on other measurements in the market.
    #42     Sep 13, 2002
  3. jasper6


    OK, that gets you in the trade. What gets you out?
    #43     Sep 13, 2002
  4. mgkrebs


    a stop limit order 1 tick above below trigger point.
    #44     Sep 13, 2002
  5. jasper6


    A 1 tick stop?
    #45     Sep 13, 2002
  6. Speaking of ma, it aint the ma which whipsaws you, it's the market which whipsaws you. The ma's job is to tell you (as if you didn't already know) prices have been going up or prices have been going down. It isn't the ma's fault the market keeps going first up then down then up again. It just tells you what ever you have it set to tell you.

    Traders blame the ma cause what they really should be blaming is themselves for being mad becuase the market won't trend.

    An indicator is an indicator. It doesn't matter if it is mathmatical or anecdotal or intuitional.

    You were talking about a certain limited type of indicator which you believe manipulates price. I was talking about any indicator traders think will help them guess the next move of the market.

    What you are really asking is, "How the heck is a guy supposed to trade es anyway?"

    Well, there are about a million ways to trade it. You'll find the one you like through the process of elimination which usually progresses at a rate of about one loss at a a time.

    Unfortunately, the process of finding the perfect system is slowed by occasional profits. If it weren't for the profits, most traders would get where they're eventually gonna end up a lot sooner.

    And they don't manipulate price. Traders allow themselves to be manipulated because it doesn't matter if they are trading or collecting garbage or collecting unemployment, whatever they do, they want to be able to do it without having to make decisions which may be wrong. That's why broads are always telling traders they just don't listen and traders tell broads, "Just tell me what to do!"
    #46     Sep 13, 2002
  7. And another thing, It's not the market which whipsaws the trader, it's the trader which whipsaws the trader by trying to trade some kind of crazy system which is only gonna whipsaw his indicator because he doesn't have the common sense to realize that he has been getting whipsawed an awful lot lately, and so by the time he finally finds an indicator which makes money even in choppy markets the whipsawing indicator is making some other poor fool who doesn't even have the common sense to realize that he would be getting whipsawed if it weren't for the fact that the market is trending a lot of money.
    #47     Sep 13, 2002
  8. profitseer,

    As always, another insightful post!
    #48     Sep 13, 2002
  9. Heres my tip for struggling traders.

    Open your chart , and throw away every Technical indicators you have.

    Not even a ma, or volume of any type.
    Now just papertrade using price action, support/resistance.
    Keep doing that till you begin to see what experince traders see.

    To become a master, one must first become a student.
    Start from the bottom up, there are no shortcuts.
    #49     Sep 13, 2002
  10. I've already thrown away all the technical indicators and now you want me to throw away the very last one I kept?! The MA? Oh man -- that's going to be rough on me, but I see what you are saying.

    Good tips. Unfortunately, only 10% of the people who are just beginning will follow it. The other 90% will make excuses why they need to keep the RSI for this, the MACD for that ...
    #50     Sep 13, 2002