Day/SWING/POSITION ?? TRADING

Discussion in 'Psychology' started by jokepie, Jan 21, 2011.

  1. Good topic, I would submit that HH-HL or LL LH is the only thing that really exists in a market, the goal is to clearly define what that is.

    Screen time is the only real way to do this. And the OP is correct in that markets are fractal in nature, and if one takes away the time axis, all charts are identical.

    Time bring out the illusion of pressure and needing to "act fast". Look at every chart as if you have a thousand years to make up your mind. The tick or two that is not made while you make sure you are right is better than being wrong and losing that tick or two, or more since traders have issues with being wrong.

    Find out where you are in the trend. Markets are always trending, don't let the time axis fool you. Then act on that. When you are wrong, and you will be, get on the right side asap.

    Hope this helps.
     
    #11     Jan 26, 2011
  2. Well stated.

    I treat trading like baseball.

    Use a faster chart to fine tune your skills (batting practice, "seeing" which pitches are in your sweet spot).

    Then when you are ready to trade, real money, move to the slower charts and look for those same sweet spots. They come at you a lot slower on the swing charts so it is like playing baseball and everytime YOU get up to bat the pitcher throws to you "underhanded".

    Hitting a home run each time is foolhearty. What counts is having an on base percentage above 700.
     
    #12     Jan 26, 2011
  3. Finally a good thought provoking thread in the psychology section.

    Regarding day trading, I find SLOWING myself down helps. I only take 3-4 day trades a day. So in a 7 hour trading day(9:15AM - 4:15PM ET), there are long periods of boredum punchuated by a flurry of activity...I find meditation for me helps greatly.
     
    #13     Jan 26, 2011
  4. jokepie

    jokepie

    Hey, Backlash is always blessing, makes you think and look at aspects that you might have missed.
    In other words bring it ON..!!
     
    #14     Feb 4, 2011
  5. jokepie

    jokepie


    Very well said,

    I what could help a day trader, to do better other than just pure experience. Can meditation help ?? HAs anyone realized meditations benifit in staying objective ??

    I believe Acknowledging this is a BIG step in shaping our psychy towards our actions and more importantly Understanding the outcomes (positive or Negative).
     
    #15     Feb 4, 2011
  6. jokepie

    jokepie

    Thanks for supporting the Idea. very nicely put. Especially about the Illusion.

    I think Each one of us need to find our Focus, just like a cameras Auto focus. where things look clearer and easier to act upon.

    When ever I saw a bullet fired on Discovery and was captured by a Highspeed camera - it would excite me to think wish i could see things that move that fast. :cool:

    I think what happens is that (and this is my best guess) our EYES get focussed on the next candle that is getting painted, after a while our emotions start to fluctuate with the color, size, and speed of IT. I guess we should Zoom out every few seconds to refresh our mind.

    Just trying to brainstorm 0 what could possibly help to stay calm and remain focussed.
     
    #16     Feb 4, 2011
  7. Handle123

    Handle123

    If there is equal amount of experience for long term trading and day trading, in my experiences, much more profits are made in long term and a great deal less time. Day trading, one often misses parts of long swings in price movements and gaps, many more commisions, you eyes and body wears out much faster, much more stress, reward to risk is often 1 to 1 or worse. Whereas long term, reward to risk can be 5 to 1 and much larger, one trade perhaps for an entire year in one stock. And you can be having a full time business doing something else.

    And come the end of April, retiring from day trading after 25 years of it. There are much better things to do in my life than be watching every tic any more. I still have many ideas I plan on testing for long term methods that I want to investigate.

    Have a fine weekend all.
     
    #17     Feb 5, 2011
  8. It's awesome that you've daytraded for 25 years, but your assessment of 1:1 risk-to-reward for intraday trading of stocks is wrong. Maybe it was right for the type of trading that you did, but in my trading for the past 4 years (currently in my 5th year full-time) it isn't right at all.

    I do agree that there is much more money to be made with less activity in the longer-term.
     
    #18     Feb 5, 2011
  9. jokepie

    jokepie

    How can an individual then deal with the issue of capital for long term trading, I mean due to leverage at a broker or prop firm we can day trade will with decent capital other wise what is a starting capital of 30K good for..? a thousand shares of fas and what you can have a potential of may be few thousands in a few months. Its probably a rhetorical question.

    Hummm....I know some one mention this in an earlier post as well.
     
    #19     Feb 5, 2011
  10. Handle123

    Handle123

    I primarily day-trade futures, occasionally day trade IBM and Google. But I found for myself, going for bigger profits in ES are not my style, nothing I backtested offered consistent daily returns. Instead of shooting for larger profits and which often means smaller winning percentage, I found that for myself, that smaller profits are often easier to get, then using many money management rules allowed my losing percentages to first go below fifteen percent, a mixture of wins and breakevens was left. Since losing percentage was low, I backtested adding to a losing position would make a breakeven trades, very profitable. When I added and was able to accept time elements after my entry, this lowered my losing percentages even more. When I added volume to my charts, this allowed me to pass on at least one losing trade per day, I didn't care if I missed winning trades, so long as I miss at least equal amount of wins/losses, and when I got a 'feeling" for reading the DOME, I could get in one tic better or stay 1-3 tics longer. ES, I can do fairly good size, whereas in stocks, not always that way.

    Back in the 80's and 90's when S&P traded in nickels and big point was $500, I could risk next to nothing 3-5 tics and target a full point or two, but now the Emini ES is so watered down so that underfunded and inexperienced can trade. For consistent gains, I have to risk more and get less.

    I think it is important to be able to discover who you are as a trader, the earlier the better. I just found backtesting, trading the ES at certain areas, time or volume, counter-trend moves happen so much easier for 1-4 tics. But it always comes down to your personality, what are you willing to accept. When I was much younger, I could handle 40% losing trades, but after so many years and not wanting to do 150 trades a day, I have abandoned larger dollar per winning trade for smaller losing percentages and only 20-40 trades a day. And that is not much for scalping.
     
    #20     Feb 5, 2011
    beginner66 likes this.