dax future - can others see my stops?

Discussion in 'Index Futures' started by ranger64, Sep 4, 2006.

  1. ranger64

    ranger64

    i´ve been studying and simulation-trading the dax for about 3 years now, results are great, transition to real trading is tough but getting better every day, even though i know it´s going to be difficult getting consistent results anywhere close to what i´ve been doing in simulation mode.
    what i´d like to know is: can other traders actually see your stops? i always thought you can only see the limit orders in the order book, but IB told me that stop market orders are sent to eurex directly (whereas stoplimit orders are simulated and aren´t sent to the exchange before being triggered). so does that mean that if volume is low, there are traders out there who can see where my stops are and could theoretically move the market in the direction of my stops and have them triggered? if so, how come i don´t have this information as IB customer? Do you have to be eurex member or trade through an eurex terminal to see it?
     
  2. My understanding is that none of the electronic exchanges declare the postion of stops (but you can always use a stoplimit order (big limit range) with IB if you are concerned (I assume the stoplimits are not native)).

    However many are able to guess where they will be as many are positioned to take advantage of local support and resistance.
     
  3. ozzy

    ozzy

    Yes they can see your stops also from what I hear, they can also see what your doing right before you enter a trade on your computer. Additionally I hear each broker has a camera inside each customers bathroom this way they can see you when you wipe your ass. I have no idea why they do this. Personally I think they are going a little too far with this one.

    Good Luck

    ozzy
     
  4. they can't real see the stops but with experience they know where they are. So they can play with them and use them as "jumper"... bastards !
     
  5. ranger64

    ranger64

    good suggestion, kiwi. i always try to figure out what is the worst that can happen during any single trade (probably too many black swans in my subconsciousness after reading talebs "fooled by randomness"). i trade with very tight stops, so simulated stplmt´s would be a good idea, but what if you experience some rare event, all hell breaks loose, and you want to be sure that your stop is at the exchange? maybe safer to work with native stop market orders.
     
  6. Ranger,

    Dax is a very volatile market, margin is at 6400 euro at IB. Not exactly a market for someone who just started and is asking that type of questions. If you place limit stops there is no guarantee that your orders will trigger anyway, especially when dax really starts to move. If you are scalping dax it means that you will be looking at the screen all the time so you just need to hit a buy or sell buttons. Scalpers don't need to use stops. You will have to trust yourself. Just like in a game of poker you need to know when to hold'em and when to fold'em. Personally I never use stops but it's up to the trader weather he wants to use stops or not.
     
  7. One thought is that thats your "disaster stop." I trade the hsi which is quite thin and can be a wee bit nasty. I have a stop in place always but when I move closer to the market I use a tight stoplimit.
     
  8. ranger64

    ranger64

    trendtech, believe me, i know how volatile the dax is. i´ve been analysing the dax tick by tick for several years, i get out of bed with the dax, i go to sleep with the dax, and i´m not a newbie trader either, i´m 42 years, with about 20 years of part time trading experience behind me.
    i really don´t know what you mean with "that type of questions". i know there is no guarantee that limit stops will be triggered if the market moves too fast and too far, and where should you place your limit anyway? so probably better to use stop market. i´m thinking about rare events (i wouldn´t describe myself as a pure scalper, my stops are from 3 to maximum 8 ticks, my targets from 3 to 40 ticks or more, sometimes pyramiding when things are going my way), i prefer using bracket-orders, simply because i feel more relaxed when i know that my stop is at the exchange the same time my initial order is filled.
    you said "scalpers don´t need to use stops"...
    i couldn´t agree less. you´ll be ok 99,99 percent of the time, but what will you do when the black swan hits you...if you´re lucky, it will only wipe out an unsubstantial part of your account, if not...
     
  9. ranger64

    ranger64

    are you saying you actually have 2 stops at the same time? a tight stplmt and a stpmkt disaster stop further away, to protect you in case the first stop isn´t hit? interesting, but what if both stops get hit? you´ll have a position instead of being flat.
     
  10. hsi gotta be the most blatantly manipulated mkt of 'em all; i mean wtf are doin' all those orders goin' off miles outside the spread? me thinks mms are pushin' it around to protect their own positions and make 'em profitable...sort of buyin'/sellin' to 'emselves?
     
    #10     Sep 4, 2006