Discussion in 'Trading' started by Machal, Mar 7, 2003.
All excelent informations and links.
Thank you and have a nice Sunday!
So, I am trading Eurostoxx50 now and I have to say... EXCELENT!
Much better then DAX. Can't compare it.
So, thank you again for your tips.
One more question for those, who trade this.
I watch time and sales, big trades are there 100-200 contract, but sometimes I can see really big trades such as 10.000 contracts, big volume spike on charts appears.
Are they from banks, funds, etc? But such big orders dont push a price down ...
Or are those some direct deals?
How can I know, if they buy or sell...?
Can I use them for my trading?
Thank you and have a great day.
I think these spikes in volume do not represent real volume. If anybody trades 10000 estx at market, market should move a lot (generally sizes at each bid/ask are +/- 200 contracts)
I agree and if it does not move price, it does not affect your trading.
I agree. These volume spikes are not "real" because they do not affect the price. This week is expiration (friday) which might be the reason for the more frequent unreal prints. I guess they have something to do with rolling contracts.
these 1000+ contract trades ARE real...they are just agreed via an interbank broker first. (eg CANTOR etc)...thus why they don't move the market.
whether the broker ends up taking some/all of the position or acts purely as broker i don't know
Quiet, please explain. If the trade is done interbank (otc), volume would noot appear on Eurex.
Moreover, I don't think that two banks would agree in advance to put a bid and an offer of 10000 lots and quickly hit/lift each other.
Frequently one has "agreed" trades eg a spread trade where one party would for example be selling 1000 march futures contracts and simultaneously buying 1000 june. Obviously there must be a counter party to such a trade so you would see the 1000 lot go thru without it having any effect on the price.
I understand your scepticism. The truth is that these trades Do occur. They are agreed in an OTC way but executed on the exchange. If you think about it it makes sense:
A busy trader works for a bank managing a portfolio of OTC and ETO options. He uses futures to hedge the delta of his portfolio. Currently he is overalll flat but net long 25,000 futures.
Today a asks for an offer for the equivalent of 10,000 OTC put options (eg with 10 years duration at the customers specified strike). Having quoted a price a price for this business our trader finds himself effectively short 5,000 futures contracts. He knows the market is liquid but he's busy and would prefer to just hedge the entire amount in one go without bothering to work his orders.
So, he phones his favourite broker and asks for a price to sell whatever size. Having agreed the size/price they agree to execute the order on the exchange at a specific time. At that time you briefly see 2 orders at the given price before they match off.
Even if that's not exactly how it works its pretty close. I'm 100% certain trades like this happen. Even if you take out the OTC client aspect remember that the OI for ESTX50 options is currently just short of 10,000,000. That's a f*** of a lot of delta that needs hedging....
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