Data and Knowledge: the difference is Ontology

Discussion in 'Data Sets and Feeds' started by harrytrader, Feb 27, 2004.

  1. "What is an ontology?
    <br>An ontology defines the terms used to describe and represent concepts. Ontologies are used to describe concepts as well as their inter-relationships. Being able to standardize the definition of real-world concepts becomes very powerful as you begin to investigate knowledge that spans across multiple domains."

    By semaview Corporation on the emergence of Semantic Web

    <IMG SRC=>
  2. For Shannon's information theory is too reductionist.

    Shannon’s mechanistic information theory now totally dominates modern data communications and computing.

    Programmed data processing computers manipulate “meaningless” data patterns using arithmetic and programming, while communication networks only transmit “meaningless” binary bit streams. And yet the following questions remain:

    1) If Shannon’s binary bit streams truly represent “communications”, then why is communication in nature or between humans so entirely different? Normal communications use symbols, sounds, or images which have “meaning”. Other than artificial computer communications, almost no natural communication is done with binary bits or yes-no answers.

    2) Isn’t “Meaningless information” a contradiction in terms ?. If a message contains no “meaning” then it is of no value to the receiver and represents only gibberish. Information not only contains “meaning” but is “meaning”. Binary bit streams have no “meaning” to human beings and therefore contain no true information.

    3) Why is Shannon’s theory so totally unable to explain the functioning and learning processes of our own brain? Our brain obviously does not function like a programmed data processing computer. It extracts “meaning” from environmental data and accumulates “knowledge”, without requiring any external programming or arithmetic.

    4) Why is “lossless” data compression not only possible but already the basis of a huge market? The V.42bis compression standard, for example, is now implemented in virtually all new modems. Data compression utilities are being used in most computers to double or even triple storage capacities in disc drives. Data compression is rapidly invading all forms of communications so that uncompressed data transmissions may soon become uncompetitive.
  3. If you wish, consider learning about how a human works or doesn't work.

    Once you do, then you can understand what is necessary for a person to do to get to a place to make money efficiently.

    The four things you listed, are not very important relative to transference of efficient paradigms from one person to another to be "enabling".

    With respect to trading, most people go through a process from the time they begin to when they quit, that is simply a totally dissabling process from which they cannot, by just personal effort, recover.

    Think very thoroughly about the descriptions people give here and elsewhere when they describe the common set of events before, during and after "busting out".

    What occurs to a human that has incapacitated himself by repeated punishment. ("doing wrong" in a hostile climate). He takes a break as a consequence of personal collapse. What was destroyed by this sequencial process?

    Draw a diagram of the input to output path. Be sure to show the ancillary streams of lateral support mechanisms that maintain the I/O process. Be sure to show all the non centralized "information storage areas" and especially how they are tapped for info and how they are maintained and updated.

    Defining learning is not an easy task. You will easily see at some point why learning becomes impossible after failure reaches a "critical" value long before it becomes dominant.

    The recent Nobel Prze conclusions demonstrate abundantly that the mode of financial investment by participants is beyond the stage where learning is still possible. How could such "conditioning" become the mode?
  4. >If you wish, consider learning about how a human works or >doesn't work.
    Don't worry for that, I have in fact advised to read this book
    A Universe of Consciousness: How Matter Becomes Imagination
    by Gerald M. Edelman (Nobel Prize)

    which deals much with conciousness and learning

    >Once you do, then you can understand what is necessary for a >person to do to get to a place to make money efficiently.
    But I'm not really dealing here with learning methods but with the
    ESSENCE of KNOWLEDGE which is a totally different subject.

    >The four things you listed, are not very important relative to >transference of efficient paradigms from one person to another >to be "enabling".
    The four things I listed is not from me but from the link I refered to which belongs to a firm that have developped new compression algorithm based upon that.

    >With respect to trading, most people go through a process from >the time they begin to when they quit, that is simply a totally >dissabling process from which they cannot, by just personal >effort, recover.
    I will profit here to return to the subject I am concerned with here: what is knowledge. As said in the ontology definition "Being able to standardize the definition of real-world concepts becomes very powerful as you begin to investigate knowledge that spans across multiple domains." most people think that a definition is something that is obvious whereas it is not and being able to define something precisely is in fact a long process.

    I have already given the example of temperature in science (see about phlogistic but in trading this is obvious : term as fuzzy as consolidation, pullback etc. (see for example the question asked "Are there pullback systems that backtest well" problem because they are defined conceptually but not OPERATIONALLY. And since I followed the spirit of Walter Shewart the father of Statistical Process Control I know how important it is to have an OPERATIONAL definition and not only a conceptual definition. All my effort around my model is to be able now to create such OPERATIONAL definitions.
    With the coming of so called semantic web, it is funny that such a thing which seems philosophical before now enters the field of technology, notably with XML and RDF by the W3C comitee see
    <IMG SRC=>

  5. Thank you for your post and thank you for responding to my comments in detail.

    Historically, our family has had an affiliation with communications, reliability and data compression. So I got to grow up reading the MFr's of the staff at BTL and later as a MTS during grad school years (It was a fluke based upon a unique inovation).

    ET rarely deals with ideas and how they become manifested into pragmatic matters of high utility. It is not really possible in this forum to carry on intensive discussions of matters that will originate breakthoughs in performance. I thought I would give it a try anyway since you introduced a major key for excelling in performance.

    In trading, preventing failure, can be one of the most powerful tools once the communications and learning processes are understood.

    It is so compelling to examine the efforts made "outside" and periferal to the human being. That is your interest. My interests have always been pragmatic. The two references that you gave in your beginning of the thread. could be easily extrapolated to cross the line from "outside" the human to "inside" the human. In fact, by applying a couple of concepts, you easily get to some basic "processing" matters that practically eliminate "failure" on the part of traders. The fact is, that people are data processors.

    I am conducting a very careful introduction of knowledge here in ET. There are many many profitable trading approaches. Most all of them can be improved stage by stage. One of the major keys is letting market "information" be "communicated" into the trading approach.

    Your initial posts reveal several things. By introducing data compression, you opened an amazing avenue of consideration. I have dealt with data compresion vis a vis geological exploration (ratios approach 200:1) where cost savings of 10:1 are easily realized.

    Compressing data in trading is an appropriate endeavor. It beats neural and random hands down. For the individual who is still mentally functional it is most rewarding. The SE + E or A or N, then adding dependents is a key; so is using the opposite of the matrix search.

    Trading involves just two efforts in the final analysis. The second (in time) is a combination of hold and exit. Envision a person who is able to do two "meaning" functions. One function is maintaining a "library" of "profit sequences"; the other is a library of "ommissions" and "flaws" vis a vis continuing "profit sequences". You can see over the last few months I have introduced several portions of these considerations. All have been placed in threads of those who are forwarding their knowledge through inquiry. You are not at inquiry but you are, on the other hand, satisfying your needs to post. The topic you chose was a good one and the "Nobel" comment is a clincher of all clinchers. It is the paramount statement of how the financial industry participants become "damaged goods". See minute 8 of the recent Ari kiev video post. For the respective libraries see minutes 12 and 15 for implicit comments.

    If a person puts on the table either fixing what is busted or, if not damaged, learning to make money efficiently, he has to eliminate (minimize) a loop he uses in monitoring. All people conventionally do "busy"work mentally most of the time. This busy work may actually be a distraction from the focus of "processing" needed information instead.

    Because I have continuing colleagual relationships and I support work as well, in the psychiatric community, I have focussed on personally eliminating this loop and then replacing it with another loop. The time ratio of periodicity of use is 18:4. Where each number is in units per second. For example, a person can "see" the IB 0.7sec (duration) snapshot about 12 times for each display.

    To compress the excess data a person gets and to eliminate unuseful data (See those sets mentioned in other posts) and to less frequently (go from 18 to 4) "process" in another mental location that does not do "busy work" or ursurp attention of the wrong part of the knowledge base, takes an effort which is the replacement for the "busy work" "discipline" effort often mentioned here.

    Ari Kiev mentions that a person must make a different effort (See minute 17) to recover after market hours. He also requests that a person evaluate his depth of failure to be operational. (See minute 13).

    It is more rational to eliminate the behavior and even more rational to replace the causal factors for the behavior.

    It will not be possible to replace the "busy" loop for most. Making proper use of the "busy" loop is the only alternative.

    The last 12 months my primary interest has been building the two libraries on ET for use of ET'ers. I suggest that there are plateaux of usage in the sense that a person begins small and at no risk. This is an orthagonal alternative to "edges". The mid level is intermediate which has four subsets of slightly increased elevations. KISS comes of being an expert.

    What is the habitat like outside of RMH. See Ari Kiev. This is not where it's at however. Repairing stuff after hours is antithetical. It does turn out to be the only alternative, though, for people who are busted if they are even going to do the repair.

    Damage is well articulated on ET and it is not remediated. The 30 some steps of popular belief and myth could have been compressed to 8 steps (I screwed up that post, it disappeared). On the other hand there is a shadow set of steps for the 30 posted that represents the progressive mental damage that is incurred that prevents the formation of "libraries" and their tandem usage in a loop that replaces the "busy" loop.

    The general collection of what a person is drives his life processes. You can read people's posts here and see into them and how their clocks get wound. What gets a person so far from the target of simply making money efficiently.

    If someone posts results and another says that the post "puts him in a world of hurt" or says that I "haven't had my meds" lately, what is the complex of items that gets that kind of stuff on the table??? It is clear it is always going to be there for that person as well.

    The profound and extreme cases here like MM and trend fader are well worth reading without fail because they are vey serious coutions for the reader. take the trouble to see and find out why people are "blocked" in their reasoning and thinking and learning and memory processes.