See my addendum to my last post. Jesus did not claim to be their Messiah. The Jews themselves were split, some saying yes, most saying no. Pilate had heard he was called the Messiah, by those Jews who did believe it...not those who didn't. Whether he was or wasn't, or by which political party was claiming he was, he intended to humiliate them, and terrorize the rest. And once again, the Jewish high priesthood did not demand he be killed. They didn't like him, but this is not how it went down. edit: You don't just go around telling the Roman Governor whom to kill. That's his business, and the business of crucifixion is to put you in your place, and show you whose boss. You don't tell the boss whom to kill or not. You especially don't get him up early in the morning to hear you chant like social justice warriors about whom to kill that very day! That's enough to get you yourself killed, and on top of that, you don't tell him what sign to put over your intended victim.
Well every day Jesus is insulted and especially by those who claim to represent namely Christians, who don't deserve the namesake. To those of us who know how faith works, you want to beware any religion that believes in his pain, torture, and death...for your sins. Because the translation is simply this: You want Good dead so you, with your sins, can live. To accomplish this, you are even willing Good suffer pain and anguish, and bleed, so you can take his place. This is incredibly arrogant, for that which does not exist, to wish for that which does exist, Christ, to exchange places: for Christ to be dead (not exist) so i can exist (live). Again, this is a total insult. Through Jesus? Well yes, through his wisdom, if you apply it. This wisdom can come through others, however, anyone who does understand the wisdom, and applies it. Besides that, the wisdom says that there are not more than one of us to begin with anyway! Nor will there be more than one of us to end with. If you don't want that oneness to be true, then no, you won't experience it right now.
I thought Jesus already did this suffering by which is why he felt the need to allow himself to be put on the cross. Well it is all fuck-all, because I am catching up on GOT, and it is way more entertaining than the Bible! Fuck the king!
Well everybody suffers, even Sidhartha Guatama, before awakening, and/or before resurrecting, and/or before discovering what is Christ, and what is Self. The cross is a symbol for the condition of all mankind in relation to this world. This world is a killing machine, and we are all next in line. There are many methods by which we all die, which can be summed up in the graphic image of a man on a cross. Specifically, the thing this world intends to kill is Christ. But unable to do that, it kills all substitutes for Christ. That isus, as human beings: substitutes for Christ. So yes, Jesus did suffer, along with the rest of us, at various times of his experience in this world, which, like the rest of us, consists of dozens upon dozens of perceived incarnational lifetimes. Arguably, by the time he arrived at that lifetime, his last, he did not need to return to any incarnational experience, except to deliberately help the rest of us through his wisdom. So, how much pain he suffered in his final incarnational experience, i do not know, i don't think much. But by the time he made this demonstration, i don't think he experienced any, by design and intent. It was a lesson for his followers. But whatever, our salvation is not dependent on his suffering, by any degree, little or much. Arguably, our salvation depends on our understanding of how and why he did not feel any pain. If you can really understand that, then yes, you too are at the door step of salvation where faith is taken away, and exchanged for knowledge. With knowledge, there is no more pain. So, while he never claimed to be the Jewish version of a Messiah, he also never claimed to be just another human being like the movie Last Temptation suggests. Humans aren't what they think they are. Humans don't exist. Christ does. He knew himself as Christ, and hasn't been seen as a human ever since. For us to be saved (from more incarnational perceptions full of suffering), we simply have to know what he knew. That is all.
Well, i don't exactly think it was his idea. Jesus was a follower of the Spirit, or Holy Spirit, if you like. Maybe he had a personal agenda to pass a kind of test. But by that time, i think he had passed all personal tests of his ability to fear nothing, and feel no pain, and was ready to make a public demonstration of a miracle which sublimates pain so it is no longer felt. The agenda of the Holy Spirit is to empty hell (the tomb of time) of the only thing worth saving: Christ. Toward that agenda, the cross was probably picked as an attention getting mechanism to capture our attention. In and of itself, it is a parable through parody. If we can understand the parable, get the parody, and find out the mechanics behind the miracle, we too can be saved out of hell: but only as Christ. It's not as complicated as the Jewish flavored interpretations offered in the Pop Text (bible).
John 8 NKJV But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 Now early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people came to Him; and He sat down and taught them. 3 Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, 4 they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?” 6 This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear. 7 So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” 8 And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?” 11 She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.” 12 Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.” Jesus Defends His Self-Witness 13 The Pharisees therefore said to Him, “You bear witness of Yourself; Your witness is not true.” 14 Jesus answered and said to them, “Even if I bear witness of Myself, My witness is true, for I know where I came from and where I am going; but you do not know where I come from and where I am going. 15 You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one. 16 And yet if I do judge, My judgment is true; for I am not alone, but I am with the Father who sent Me. 17 It is also written in your law that the testimony of two men is true. 18 I am One who bears witness of Myself, and the Father who sent Me bears witness of Me.” 19 Then they said to Him, “Where is Your Father?” Jesus answered, “You know neither Me nor My Father. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also.” 20 These words Jesus spoke in the treasury, as He taught in the temple; and no one laid hands on Him, for His hour had not yet come. Jesus Predicts His Departure 21 Then Jesus said to them again, “I am going away, and you will seek Me, and will die in your sin. Where I go you cannot come.” 22 So the Jews said, “Will He kill Himself, because He says, ‘Where I go you cannot come’?” 23 And He said to them, “You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.” 25 Then they said to Him, “Who are You?” And Jesus said to them, “Just what I have been saying to you from the beginning. 26 I have many things to say and to judge concerning you, but He who sent Me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I heard from Him.” 27 They did not understand that He spoke to them of the Father. 28 Then Jesus said to them, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father taught Me, I speak these things. 29 And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things that please Him.” 30 As He spoke these words, many believed in Him. The Truth Shall Make You Free 31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” 33 They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can You say, ‘You will be made free’?” 34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed. Abraham’s Seed and Satan’s 37 “I know that you are Abraham’s descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38 I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have seen with your father.” 39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41 You do the deeds of your father.” Then they said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father—God.” 42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.” Before Abraham Was, I AM 48 Then the Jews answered and said to Him, “Do we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan and have a demon?” 49 Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon; but I honor My Father, and you dishonor Me. 50 And I do not seek My own glory; there is One who seeks and judges. 51 Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death.” 52 Then the Jews said to Him, “Now we know that You have a demon! Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and You say, ‘If anyone keeps My word he shall never taste death.’ 53 Are You greater than our father Abraham, who is dead? And the prophets are dead. Who do You make Yourself out to be?” 54 Jesus answered, “If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your God. 55 Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.” 57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?” 58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” 59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
I really love the book of Hebrews in the Bible. Not only does it prove that Jesus is God, through using verses in the Old Testament in the first part of the book, but it also shows from the Old Testament that it was necessary for the Messiah to become the sacrifice for our sins. Hebrews chapter 9 is one of my favorite chapters: The Earthly Sanctuary 9 Then indeed, even the first covenant had ordinances of divine service and the earthly sanctuary. 2 For a tabernacle was prepared: the first part, in which was the lampstand, the table, and the showbread, which is called the sanctuary; 3 and behind the second veil, the part of the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of All, 4 which had the golden censer and the ark of the covenant overlaid on all sides with gold, in which were the golden pot that had the manna, Aaron’s rod that budded, and the tablets of the covenant; 5 and above it were the cherubim of glory overshadowing the mercy seat. Of these things we cannot now speak in detail. Limitations of the Earthly Service 6 Now when these things had been thus prepared, the priests always went into the first part of the tabernacle, performing the services. 7 But into the second part the high priest went alone once a year, not without blood, which he offered for himself and for the people’s sins committed in ignorance; 8 the Holy Spirit indicating this, that the way into the Holiest of All was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing. 9 It was symbolic for the present time in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make him who performed the service perfect in regard to the conscience— 10 concerned only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation. The Heavenly Sanctuary 11 But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. 12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, 14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. The Mediator’s Death Necessary 16 For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives. 18 Therefore not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood. 19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water, scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, 20 saying, “This is the blood of the covenant which God has commanded you.” 21 Then likewise he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry. 22 And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission. Greatness of Christ’s Sacrifice 23 Therefore it was necessary that the copies of the things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another— 26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.