Cyprus bail-out: savers will be raided to save euro in future crises, says EU chief

Discussion in 'Economics' started by JamesL, Mar 26, 2013.

  1. dealmaker

    dealmaker


    No they didn't. In international Banking branches in different countries have different corporate structure, so I am sure Central Bank of Cyprus had instructed the foreign branches that any money deposited in Cyprus branches could not be withdrawn and Russians could not have had their money in UK, Laiki otherwise they would have had to show how they came about the money.
    Russia did not help Cyprus because they know, now Russians will keep their money in Russia and benefit the local economy.
     
    #11     Mar 26, 2013
  2. hftvol

    hftvol

    you just cannot say otherwise, same old confused state of mind. How much logic does it take, to convince you that

    a) Germany has been stable LONG before the Euro was introduced (in fact it had a booming economy since the end of the war, all the way into the re-unification, a self-imposed cost that Germans happily took(or less happily depending which side of the fence one lived). Germany exported almost identical amounts to its European neighbors before and after the Euro was introduced. Any argument to the contrary falls victim to spurious correlation.

    b) The German mark was fixed to the Euro at a fundamentally totally fair value. In fact the Deutsche Mark was relatively strong against the dollar (and most other currencies) when it was pegged against the Euro. If you look at a long term chart you see there is no magic, no cheating, no abnormally divergent rates that even a total beginner in fx land could spot. Thus, suggesting that Germany got an unfair advantage because it pegged its currency against the Euro at an unfair rate is absurd, just factually totally unsupported, in fact empirical evidence points to the contrary, that Germany fixed its rate against the euro at a value that locked in a strong German currency.

    c) There were no weak countries all the way into 2009. In fact when drinks and cocktails in Frankfurt, Berlin, Munich, Hamburg still cost 3-4 Euros a piece the same cocktail cost 10-12 Euros in Barcelona. When housing prices were so dirty cheap in Germany that hordes of Americans flooded Berlin to fetch up flats the same sized flats of much lower quality cost 2-3 fold anywhere in Spain, Greece, Italy. Pretty much all European countries greatly benefited from a common currency and partied away as if there is no tomorrow while Germany was still suffering from the huge financial overhang of the re-unification.

    d) German stability is what? A sin, as German one has to now feel ashamed that his/her cultural and social traits motivates one to produce top-notch high-quality products that are more competitive than other products elsewhere? So, Germany has to feel morally responsible for being harder working and more efficient than the rest of Europe?

    e) Germany has been the largest net payer of any European country. Billions were transferred over the course of the past 14 years (in fact a lot more even before the introduction of the Euro). All the countries that had to be bailed out were net receivers, thus net they have not paid a penny to anyone else, while Germany pretty much paid large sums to everyone south of Munich.

    So could you please tell us which German conscience should dictate further bailing out irresponsible behavior outside Germany and further disadvantaging German tax payers? You are unfortunately incredibly ill-informed, lack basic knowledge of the situation that you claim knowledge off. But you have been repeating this stupid argument for years now. So far you have not produced a single empirical fact other than copying what some others have to say (and yes, I am well aware there are tons of differing opinions; I would also side with you if I was a net receiver and would benefit from Germany's benevolence). But this is not about how you feel about things, this is about setting facts straight and sticking to empirical evidence not to hearsay. Get your facts straight otherwise your post such as this cannot be taken seriously.

    -----Link to long term DM/USD chart before and after the peg:
    http://seekingalpha.com/article/313079-would-a-new-deutsche-mark-reach-u-s-dollar-parity


     
    #12     Mar 27, 2013
  3. hftvol

    hftvol

    I hope so, PEST!!! Let the Russians take them in then everyone will be in good company.

     
    #13     Mar 27, 2013
  4. hftvol

    hftvol

    this is entirely correct. Of course were funds deposited with a Cyprus bank that was subject to the freeze and ATM withdrawal limitations not withdraw able in London. That is the precise reason people speak of a different value of the Euro in different European centers. (London excluded of course).

     
    #14     Mar 27, 2013
  5. DT-waw

    DT-waw

    hftvol-
    where do you see german home prices going in the next 2-10 years?
    in particular, Berlin.
    It has the lowest prices in Europe... i don't count Bucarest, Kiev or Minsk for obvious reasons.
    Comparing to Madrid, Rome, Milan, Zurich, Paris, Barcelona- dirty cheap.

    Which asset would you suggest to store wealth, besides gold and silver?
    Certainly not currencies held at any bank.

    The trend i see among the rich & famous is buying real estate in prime locations outside eurozone: mainly NY, Miami, London, Dubai, Singapore, even Brazil and making them the most luxurious as possible to pump up the value.
    But that works for locations which are also tourists magnets. Germany is not. Is that a reason why German real estate is relatively cheap?
     
    #15     Mar 27, 2013
  6. hftvol

    hftvol

    a) home prices? I do not know, I am not a crystal ball reader, I trade based on market reaction not based on prediction and this applies to everything I invest in (I do not invest in ventures because I predict future success but because I know and trust the business owners and managers and I am a strong believer that the past is a strong predictor of the future, at least it has much higher predictive power than anything else).
    b) gold and silver as safe store? I thought this myth has already been debunked but apparently there still are fellas out there that believe in gold as the ultimate storage. Why dont you take a look at the gold charts in 2008 and tell us what you see? Ups, wait wasnt that the year of the worst financial crisis after WWII?
    c) What I invest in? I invest in my companies and in a few ventures that I strongly believe in, whose co-owners and managers I personally know. Nothing else invested long-term. No equity, no bonds, no commodities, no real estate (at least not beyond the one I use to live in).

     
    #16     Mar 27, 2013
  7. zdreg

    zdreg

    you are attributing to me an anti-german sentiment which is non-existent. i never said i was in favor of bailouts.

    my opinion that Germany benefits from selling in euros to southern europe is not an insult to Germany. it is a fact that german companies benefit from being able to finance deals at lower interest rates then their southern competitors. it is also likely that if germany left the euro that their currency would be worth 20% more than the euro. of course Germany deserves credit for bearing the pain of reunification including giving east germans a great deal on their near worthless currency.
     
    #17     Mar 27, 2013
  8. hftvol

    hftvol

    That's not what you said. You said that Germany ows the rest of Europe and you argued that fx pegs gave Germany an unfair advantage and that Germany benefits from a weak Euro. Both are factually incorrext. In fact the Euro can hardly be considered cheap at rates North of 1.20. Every economist will attest you that. I provided sufficient facts that suggest Germany, if anything, is in the position to demand from its neighbors to hold up to their Euro agreements and commitment, not the other way around. You post for years now the unsupported idea of Germany unfairly benefitting from its Euro membership. That is simply not correct.

     
    #18     Mar 27, 2013
  9. zdreg

    zdreg

    in life there is a quid pro quo. in exchange for agricultural subsidies to the south with exaggerated figures by greece etc. german industry benefited. was Germany a net economic winner. probably not. these subsidies had political motives. i suppose the idea was to make germany acceptable to the rest of europe.

    unfortunately at the end, people bite the hand that feeds them.
     
    #19     Mar 27, 2013
  10. hftvol

    hftvol

    That's not what you said. You said that Germany IQs to the rest of Europe and you argued that fx pegs gave Germany an unfair advantage and that Germany benefits from a weak Euro. Both are factually incorrext. In fact the Euro can hardly be considered cheap at rates North of 1.20. Every economist will attest you that. I provided sufficient facts that suggest Germany, if anything, is in the position to demand from its neighbors to hold up to their Euro agreements and commitment, not the other way around. You post for years now the unsupported idea of Germany unfairly benefitting from its Euro membership. That is simply not correct.

     
    #20     Mar 27, 2013