Discussion in 'Retail Brokers' started by o10maximus, Nov 17, 2001.

  1. i used cyber for almost a year.. i was using their cyberx2 platform and qcharts.. i had no real complaints except for normal nuisance stuck orders and things of that nature.. then one morning i woke up and tried to log on.. cyber somehow had me blocked from their firewall.. several days going back and forth on the phone with their tech support and they couldnt figure it out.. they blamed the problem on my ISP.. so.. i opened an account with IB.. honestly, i wish Cyber had locked me out sooner.. IB's order entry interface is much faster.. the way their short sale logic works is far superior.. and best of all, they are incredibly inexpensive.. of course as Magna pointed out, commission costs are only one small piece of the trading puzzle.. but why overpay? while there are those who like to say that the only traders who complain about commissions being expensive are losing traders, ive noticed that the people who downplay the cost of commissions tend to be the ones who directly benefit from them.. but in a review of my trades over the last year.. if i had been with IB instead of Cyber i would have saved enough to buy a shiny new porche.. now, before supersoes i wouldnt have considered IB but getting a good fill is much simpler now.. and this year, i think ill buy the car for myself =)

    #11     Nov 18, 2001
  2. Dustin


    Actually you're a bit wrong here. As long as you do not cancel that original order you will only be charged one commission no matter how long it takes to fill. If you get a partial, then cancel and adjust price to get the remaining fill then you will get charged another ticket if it's 2 minutes after the original fill. This is great for trading illiquid fast tech where partial fills are the norm. All day long I will get partials and adjust price a few times in under 2 mins to get a better fill...of course it was even better when it used to be 5 mins.

    For the record I've used Cyber for 2+ years and feel that overall it can't be beat, unless you are a newbie or swing trader who can use IB. I've tried TradeCast, Realtick, IB (for futs trading), and AB Watley.

    You will also not find better support if you can be part of Cyber's Priority Access group. Those guys are literally at your beckon call.
    #12     Nov 18, 2001
  3. IB is "great" for longer swings (I define as something as anything greater than 10minutes). But, a priori, one never knows in advance which trades will constitute a longer swing and which trades will necessitate a quick exit.

    Cybertrader provides a fantastic platform for precision execution, enabling you to save more than IB's commissions savings (relative to IB) if you are trading larger size (I define larger size as 750 - 5000 shares).

    Now that I am combining swing and intraday trading, Cybertrader suits me for these reasons:
    1) my trades are usually greater than 1000 shares
    2) i seek a quick, precision cheap exit (using the hot keys on Cybertrader) even for a swingtrade
    3) i seek reasonable charting and analytics, which are LINKED to my Level2 (having separate execution and analytics means typing things in twice ... hardly conducive to speedy execution)
    4) i seek helpful and RAPID customer support (try getting through to IB if you have an execution problem ... it will take you many minutes and could lose you $thousands). My experience with IB customer service has been extremely negative, both in terms of speed of getting through, and helpfulness.
    5) I have sufficient funds in my account to offset the $200 a month data fees, as a result of interest payments on the account.
    6) Cybertrader commissions are only slightly more for 1000 shares, as compared to IB. For even larger lots, Cybertrader is cheaper.... what do you get for the higher Cybertrader commissions? ... 2,3 and 4

    Cybertrader used to have a lot of problems... since January 2000, the software and its reliability has improved beyond recognition. For serious and well-capitalised traders, I believe that there are only two credible RETAIL options a) Cybertrader b) MB Trading

    What I have said is within the context of retail trading. I guess that professional / proprietary firms such as Bright Trading, EchoTrade, Lieber&Weissman, Worldco will have different platforms (possibly in-house) which are customised to the "house-style" ... I don't have any experience with these, but I would imagine that they would be on a par with Cybertrader and MB Trading.
    #13     Nov 18, 2001

  4. agree.. if you use ISLD or SuperSoes its actually much cheaper to trade size with Cyber.. on several thousand shares, Redi is cheaper too..

    agree again.. Cyber priority access staff is top notch.. they were fast and responsive.. IB on the other hand.. well, to put it bluntly - they suck.. i called in once because the software went down and i had (i forget exactly what it was, but for example) an 800 share short position in INTC that was slowly moving against me.. when the guy answered the phone i stated my name, my account number and asked that he close my open position of 800 INTC at the market.. he wasnt listening.. so i told him my name and account number again.. then we played 20 questions while he slowly verified my account information.. then finally he looks at my account and says im short 800 intc, then asks what do i want to do.. aside from strangle the living $%&* out of him all i wanted was to cover my position at the market.. so now immediatly after i place an order, i also enter a stop order so that if i get knocked off the system, i know i wont lose my ass while trying to convince IB to close my position.. so far this has worked well..

    IB isnt perfect but it does save me money.. particularly since i tend to take partial exits alot.. i have to admit that if not for the technical problems i would not have left Cyber.. but in the end, it has worked out well.. im on a faster platform than CyberX2, its less expensive for me.. and its alot easier to place short orders.. the downside is the customer service, so i place mechanical stops to protect myself..

    #14     Nov 18, 2001
  5. RAY



    I had the same thing happen to me (closing position over phone with IB because of technical difficulties). I wanted to KILL that guy. I don't get it? I tell him my name and the position I want closed, but no he wants to play who wants to be a millionaire, just CLOSE IT!

    This was almost a year ago, and it still pisses me off to no end.
    #15     Nov 18, 2001
  6. qwicktrade, I'm curious. Why do you say it's easier to place short sales on IB than on Cyber?
    #16     Nov 18, 2001
  7. RAY.. i know exactly what you mean.. its been over a month and it still pisses me off to think about it.. i seriously thought the guy was going to ask for a DNA sample..


    with cyber when you enter a short sale, if the stock is on a down bid, the system cancels the order.. say you are stalking a cup and handle breakdown and the market is 44.93 x 44.94 on a downbid.. the days low is 44.88.. as the stock ticks down penny by penny, with cyber you must constantly cancel and replace your order 1 cent above the bid.. with IB, i would simply place a short order for 44.85 or so.. the system automatically offers the short one penny above the down bid until it is either filled or there is an upbid.. once there is an upbid, the system automatically hits the bid up to my limit price.. so, with cyber you have to manually walk the order down with the stock and try to get filled on the ask.. or you can try to time an upbid and maybe you will get lucky.. with IB you place the order and the system automatically walks the order down with the stock until it is either filled or there is an upbid, in which case it executes against the bid.. i hope my explanation isnt confusing..

    #17     Nov 18, 2001
  8. Dustin


    Set up a hotkey to enter a CyberExchange Limit order +.01 above the bid. With this key you can walk the offer down really fast...usually I'm the first offer before all the others pile on.
    #18     Nov 18, 2001
  9. Magna

    Magna Administrator


    This is not to say that Cyber's shorting method is as good as IB's, but I think you made an error when you said:

    with cyber you must constantly cancel and replace your order 1 cent above the bid.

    If I'm not mistaken the order only needs to be .01 above the bid if you enter the order on a downtick. If, however, you enter the order on an uptick it can be at the bid or below the bid, similar to IB. The big advantage of IB in that scenario is that you can enter the order at or below the bid, regardless of whether the stock is downticking or not.
    #19     Nov 18, 2001
  10. Dustin

    i was using CyberX2 which doesnt have hot keys.. sounds like Cybertrader would be workable though..


    you are right, and in my example i stated that the stock was on a down bid.. but like you said, on an upbid its really not an issue either way..

    #20     Nov 18, 2001