Cutting through the hype

Discussion in 'Trading' started by Cutten, Jan 2, 2004.

  1. Exactly.
    The lumps always cry out the perennial "if it's so succesful why sell...".

    However, emphasis needs to be made here:
    For those not trading OPM, many sell because it is simply risk-free $$$. It is what any RATIONAL BUSINESSMAN would do. And many "gurus" are just 1 man and his dog operations trading their own capital.
    People like TokyoJoe of the world at his peak were making $3-4M/yr on selling subscriptions alone (600 x 600/mth x 12). Zero/zip/nada risk, Stress-free.
    How many prop traders/remote traders on Earth make that from trading? LOL
    Many I assume are making 5 figures/mth.. Sure takes a lot of pressure off in making bill payments, putting food on the table etc.

    And remember that trading own risk capital:

    1/ trading is a hard game
    2/ even the very best traders have bad runs where they lose significant $$. Definitely not like using an ATM or printing $$$ every time you click the buy/sell like many think
    3/ those gurus selling monthly subs are scalping/short term oriented, and by definition => NOT scalable strategies. That is to say, those with OPM ($MMs) eg. funds, cant use it
    4/ having a bunch of subscibers actually enhances the prob of success of the set-up as they inevitably pile on behind you leading to a self-fulfilling prophecy, magnifying the returns further.

    That said, who wouldn't want the free gravy?
    #31     Jan 4, 2004
  2. FWIW, Back in mid-2003, Saliba and his partner started a hedge fund focusing on options strategies.

    And from what I understand people like Saliba are offering education as opposed to the "follow my trades" gurus.

    IMO, one reason why certain gurus will always have followers is due to the fact that many people are just too plain lazy to do the necessary work even after they have got the methodology/process/basics.
    "Most want to be fed a fish each day rather than learning how to fish"

    #32     Jan 4, 2004
  3. One very simple item to note.....HAVE YOU SEEN THE MONEY???? VERY CHEAP....Have you seen the simplest examples of proof...daily blotters...????? Sure past "real" performance is not indicative of future performance...but following the logic of "a talker" is smarter??????

    All of the major brokerages trained their brokers to sell the sizzle.....and to avoid selling facts....they sell hope...and thus fools rush in....

    People do not like to buy facts...they like to buy hope....


    THE INHERENT PROBLEM IN WALL STREET IS THAT THEY MUST DO SIZE....THIS IS A PROBLEM...and is where the daytrader has a chance to exist...

    The successful daytrader is a very independent sort...and will continually face adaptation to the markets...and may..may not be able to adapt...

    BUT...small is good...for successful daytraders...and small is not worth chasing for the big wall street firms...

    But...there are no "spoon fed" daytraders....just "HOPE BUYERS"...
    #33     Jan 4, 2004
  4. This makes perfect sense to me.

    Myself, I hung around at Brandon's chatroom for a few weeks (maybe a year ago or so) and it was fun. It's a great community, it gives you something to laugh about and communicate during the times of boredom that slow trading times can give you.

    As for Brandon, he will pull one good call after the other out of his sleeve; On stocks, on ES, on NQ - no worries - and post it straight away, with stops, targets, everything precise before it all happens. Most of the calls are precise, with a high R:R ratio and very high hit rate, and most importantly - they make sense. He doesn't boast, he'll just post. Not a single time will he shy to answer a question or a reason for call etc. He knows what he's doing. There's complete amateurs in his room making money just following his calls. Even his girlfriend posts oodles of great trades throughout the day, and so do many of the other room members.

    Why did I leave? It's just not my type of trading. He trades more "setup" and "breakout" kind of things. I scalp index futures, I mainly watch "the ladder" and tape, and will be in&out dozens times a day. I can't be distracted by a chat room and particularly not be influenced in my decisions.

    But for those that are beginners at trading, joining his chat room is probably one of the best things you can do for getting a feel of what's important, and a grounded start. Brandon might make boatloads of $, but he will take time for everyone. And he knows about psychology. He'll get into your head not to do stupid things in a way that makes sense - IMO the most important thing of all. I remember this too well, once I was in his room and kept adding contracts to an ES position after a fed announcement. Everything went pretty sour, I got chopped to death on the logically following huge surges. Because of recent performance, I thought I was invincible and paid for it in K's, killing days of work. My head was f*cked up. He was one of the few who found the right words for it.

    Why? Because he's been through it all, and lost $hit-loads, then turned his psyche around and made a lot more, from what I've heard rumor, he's one very wealthy trader. So, why wouldn't he get bored sitting in front of a screen all day, making more and more money? Well, quite frankly, I'm getting hell bored at times. Trading is the most fun while you're "still learning" (not kidding). Once you got most of trading down, it can become so terribly one-sided and repetitive, it can make you walk up & down the walls. I compensated for boredom by becoming a scalper and hanging around on ET. I'm thinking about going prop, just to have some more action & exchange.

    Money isn't everything. Fun is, being happy & entertained, and helping others. Giving something back. I wish I could have a room like Brandon, seriously. There ain't much point in posting milli-second critical scalps, so it won't happen. I tried to share scalping knowledge here on ET, but it isn't appreciated much - particularly not since it's free. As people's minds are, they think anything that's free isn't worth anything. They'd only listen if they paid, because they want to get their money back. If you can do this, have fun, teach, enable others, and make money on top of that - I ask why not?

    If I was Brandon, or Linda, or whoever, I sure would, too.

    Cutting through the hype, Brandon's of the few who remain being both a true day trader and teacher of the same. Not either - but both.


    P.S: I am in no way affiliated with TFMS or Brandon, this is not a recommendation or solicitation to buy or sell ... bla bla ...
    #34     Jan 4, 2004
  5. Imho the whole idea here is useless.

    A charlatan, although a charlatan, can still sell you pure gold.

    Someone who's for real, can still sell you poison, because he's not much of a teacher.

    Eventually you will be using systems that make sense to you and that you have seen to work consistently with your own eyes, in real time (not by looking at past performance). Who introduced them to you in the first place will become irrelevant to you. It is also very likely that you will modify the system to fit your style, most of the times to an extent that it will actually become your own proprietary system anyway.

    Needless to say that all those who blindly follow gurus will go bust sooner than later, no matter who the guru is and what's his proven track record.

    #35     Jan 4, 2004
  6. As I've gone through the process of becoming a better trader, I have found myself less and less interested in sharing my strategies and techniques with others. As part of this process, I also cut out newsletters and third party "opinions", etc. from my regular routine. I guess it depends on the individual, but I'm much more private about my trading activities now. In some respects, I think part of that is due to the fact that I've taken some of my ego out of trading -- which I believe is a good thing. I'm not trying to impress anyone or prove myself to others.
    #36     Jan 4, 2004
  7. formika, great post! Short but impressive and makes sense. Perhaps sharing on ET is just a waste of time, anyway.
    #37     Jan 4, 2004
  8. cdbern


    Scientist... I'm always interested in freebe's :) and interested in the thoughts of those more experienced than I. You've shared your scalping info before. Care to direct me to where I can find your posts or would you care to share some again?
    #38     Jan 4, 2004
  9. Don't know. I don't think it's really worth it, anyway. In the new year, I should focus on really minimizing communications to a small circle of really excellent trading friends, rather than sharing everything on what represents an at times rather uncourteous forum. "Free" means "prone to trolling". Scalping? Search for "DAX" or "scalping", with or without name, you'll find something. Take care.
    #39     Jan 4, 2004

  10. Bravo... good points!

    Was every great NBA/MLB coach/manager (etc.) in the Hall of Fame?! Yet I bet they coached many who made it to the Hall, and perhaps without this skillful leadership and teaching might have ended up as just another real good pro player. Were these coaches snake oil salesmen?! Some people are just great teachers/ educators/coaches... born leaders... but, perhaps they did not have the personal skills/discipline blah, blah, blah... to excell in their own right.

    #40     Jan 4, 2004