This is hilarious Stu: "Can't support what you say so you get pathetic, as usual." Jem: "Please support what you say Stu." Stu: "Grow up."
i guess you just missed the "first person evidence "part. no matter.its still questionable. what we have here are a couple of passing mentions,written 60 years after the fact,both of which are disputed, that basically say i heard stories about a man named jesus. nothing more. hardly valid evidence in any court of law. "Sometimes Christian apologists say there are only three options to who Jesus was: a liar, a lunatic or the Lord. But there is a fourth option: legend." (Bart Ehrman American New Testament scholar) http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/josephus-etal.html Not a single writer before the 4th century â not Justin, Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Cyprian, Arnobius, etc. â in all their defences against pagan hostility, makes a single reference to Josephusâ wondrous words. The third century Church 'Father' Origen, for example, spent half his life and a quarter of a million words contending against the pagan writer Celsus. Origen drew on all sorts of proofs and witnesses to his arguments in his fierce defence of Christianity. He quotes from Josephus extensively. Yet even he makes no reference to this 'golden paragraph' from Josephus, which would have been the ultimate rebuttal. In fact, Origen actually said that Josephus was "not believing in Jesus as the Christ." Origen did not quote the 'golden paragraph' because this paragraph had not yet been written. It was absent from early copies of the works of Josephus and did not appear in Origen's third century version of Josephus, referenced in his Contra Celsum. Consider, also, the anomalies: 1. How could Josephus claim that Jesus had been the answer to his messianic hopes yet remain an orthodox Jew? The absurdity forces some apologists to make the ridiculous claim that Josephus was a closet Christian! 2. If Josephus really thought Jesus had been 'the Christ' surely he would have added more about him than one paragraph, a casual aside in someone else's (Pilate's) story? In fact, Josephus relates much more about John the Baptist than about Jesus! He also reports in great detail the antics of other self-proclaimed messiahs, including Judas of Galilee, Theudas the Magician, and the unnamed 'Egyptian Jew' messiah. It is striking that though Josephus confirms everything the Christians could wish for, he adds nothing that is not in the gospel narratives, nothing that would have been unknown by Christians already. 3. The question of context. Antiquities 18 is primarily concerned with "all sorts of misfortunes" which befell the Jews during a period of thirty-two years (4-36 AD). Josephus begins with the unpopular taxation introduced by the Roman Governor Cyrenius in 6 AD. He presents a synopsis of the three established Jewish parties (Pharisees, Sadducees, and Essenes), but his real quarry is the "fourth sect of philosophy ... which laid the foundation of our future miseries." That was the sect of Judas the Galilean, "which before we were unacquainted withal." At the very point we might expect a mention of "Christians" (if any such sect existed) we have instead castigation of tax rebels! "It was in Gessius Florus's time [64-66] that the nation began to grow mad with this distemper, who was our procurator, and who occasioned the Jews to go wild with it by the abuse of his authority, and made them revolt from the Romans; and these are the sects of Jewish philosophy." "Nor can fear of death make them call any man Lord." Sound a tad familiar? Chapter 2 notes the cities built to honour the Romans; the frequent changes in high priest (up to Caiaphas) and Roman procurators (up to Pontius Pilate); and also the turmoil in Parthia. Chapter 3, containing the Testimonium as paragraph three, is essentially about Pilate's attempts to bring Jerusalem into the Roman system. With his first policy â placing Caesar's ensigns in Jerusalem â Pilate was forced to back down by unexpected Jewish protests in Caesarea. With his second policy â providing Jerusalem with a new aqueduct built with funds sequestered from the Temple, Pilate made ready for Jewish protests. Concealed weapons on his soldiers caused much bloodshed. At this point the paragraph about Jesus is introduced! Immediately after, Josephus continues: "And about the same time another terrible misfortune confounded the Jews ..." There is no way that Josephus, who remained an orthodox Jew all his life and defended Judaism vociferously against Greek critics, would have thought that the execution of a messianic claimant was "another terrible misfortune" for the Jews. This is the hand of a Christian writer who himself considered the death of Jesus to be a Jewish tragedy (fitting in with his own notions of a stiff-necked race, rejected by God because they themselves had rejected the Son of God). With paragraph 3 removed from the text the chapter, in fact, reads better. The "aqueduct massacre" now justifies "another terrible misfortune."
Your jesus never existed author... just like Stu... misses the main piece of evidence from Josephus. The second passage of Josephus is virtually undisputed... your "expert" only addresses the TF version. Odd for and "expert" don't you think. "Josephus (c37-100 AD) ... "At face value, Josephus appears to be the answer to the Christian apologist's dreams. In a single paragraph (the so-called Testimonium Flavianum) Josephus confirms every salient aspect of the Christ-myth: 1. Jesus's existence 2. his 'more than human' status 3. his miracle working 4. his teaching 5. his ministry among the Jews and the Gentiles 6. his Messiahship 7. his condemnation by the Jewish priests 8. his sentence by Pilate 9. his death on the cross 10. the devotion of his followers 11. his resurrection on the 3rd day 12. his post-death appearance 13. his fulfillment of divine prophecy 14. the successful continuance of the Christians. In just 127 words Josephus confirms everything â now that is a miracle!"" www.jesusneverexisted.com/josephus-etal.html
still waiting for that evidence you promised us. you are the one who said you could prove scripture was god inspired. did you just make that up or do you believe that because somebody told you so but you really havent researched it yourself? the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this." Albert Einstein I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology.Thomas Jefferson
i guess you still are missing the hypocritical biased intellectually dishonest part which has been mentioned MANY times, that you are applying two different standards of evidence, one for scripture and one for the rest of history, that is biased and you are clearly biased .... if you remember my point, it is that what most athiests offer as proof is out of context, biased and fails most tests of logic and reason this is what you keep doing ... you will keep doing it until you stop doing it, there's not much else to be said the bottom line is there are some anomalies or questions to scripture, BUT, you are not addressing them nor are you admitting there are equal amounts of anomalies and questions to many things in this world (biased, hypocritical again) the end result is that true real Christians and/or other true, real religious types don't have many outright problems with other people as long as no harm is done, but most athiests have an inherent problem with Christians even when no harm is done, then representing the spectacular achievements of deception, many athiests are used as tools to blame real, true Christians for the actions of non-Christians which most real, true Christians would also condemn if you just asked instead of assumed! it's a logical nightmare ... one can only shine a light into the mudpit of deceit to show there's a better alternative, one that actually makes sense