Covered call vs. short put?

Discussion in 'Options' started by crgarcia, Aug 5, 2009.

  1. You're posting the same misinformation on multiple threads. Delta is not stationary. The put and CC are equivalent for the purposes of this discussion (ES options).
     
    #11     Aug 7, 2009
  2. spindr0

    spindr0

    I don't agree. Wayne, who replied before you posted a good answer on another chain (paraphrased here):

    A put is a call and a call is a put - because adding (or subtracting) the underlying converts one to the other.

    I'm not sure what the correct technical terminology is to explain it (perhaps someone else will) so a wobbly example is the best I can do. If the ATM call has a delta of 55 and the ATM put has a delta of -45, a round lot of the underlying equates them. In a conversion you have:

    stock +put = call

    100 + (-45) = 55

    Since the absolute value of the option components equals 100, at -45/55 or -40/60 or whatever, they're still going to be equivalent. There won't be a huge gain from one side over the other.
     
    #12     Aug 7, 2009
  3. rluser

    rluser

    I see a difference in addition to the number or instrument spreads and their size. There is also the dividend spread. If a dividend is due and I think the market overestimates its size, it seems I should sell puts or buy calls. The converse is true if I think the market underestimates the dividend, no? This is not so relevant for a european exercise or broad index.
     
    #13     Aug 7, 2009
  4. Not true. Here is an example--Last year, January 2008, the ES plunged 60 points on MLK's birthday. That Friday, I placed 4 covered puts ATM. After the 60 point plunge, my underlying showed a profit of $12,000.00 and my puts showed a loss of $7,000.00 for a net gain of $5,000.00. Yes, the gain was less than the total premiums received, but there was no way I was waiting until expiration to try to make the extra gains. As things turned out, if I waited, I would have turned a nice gain into a loss. So, with due respect, the math held.
     
    #14     Aug 8, 2009
  5. nitro

    nitro

    That is not quite correct. Skew is a factor anytime you are buying or selling synthetics vs the vanilla. In fact, to a professional options trader, they can be vastly different.
     
    #15     Aug 8, 2009
  6. This is proof of nothing. What does waiting have to do with P-C parity? Price an ES Aug 1010 covered call against a simultaneous ES Aug 1010 naked put. Paper-trade the position and you will see the equivalence, empirically.
     
    #16     Aug 8, 2009
  7. You sold synthetic calls and the market dropped.

    That's why you had a profit.

    Mark
     
    #17     Aug 8, 2009
  8. Of course, made absurd by the fact he's arguing w/o accounting for the gain on the naked "natural" call.
     
    #18     Aug 8, 2009
  9. spindr0

    spindr0

    I can't dispute anything that you say regarding what happens on a professional option traderr level since it's beyond my realm of experience. I'm a lowly retail trader :)

    But let me ask this. If the options are priced fairly, aka at theoretical levels, is there a difference in the P&L of a natural versus its synthetic??
     
    #19     Aug 8, 2009
  10. Synthetics vs. the vanilla? Huh? I am fairly certain that both the synth and natural are vanillas.
     
    #20     Aug 8, 2009