Copper - Tariff affect ?

Discussion in 'Commodity Futures' started by syswizard, Jun 15, 2018.

  1. themickey

    themickey

    #11     Jun 27, 2018
  2. vanzandt

    vanzandt

    Will Lithium Prices Fall by 2021?

    Priscila Barrera - February 26th, 2018
    [​IMG]
    Investors’ fears over a price crash increased after Morgan Stanley’s latest forecast showed lithium prices could fall by 45 percent by 2021.

    Lithium prices have been on an uptrend for the last two years on the back of a strong demand outlook from the electric vehicle space.
    But Morgan Stanley’s (NYSE:MS) latest forecast shows prices could fall 45 percent by 2021.
    Analysts believe growing demand from the electric car sector will be insufficient to offset increasing supply from Chile, the Financial Times reported.

    According to the bank, new lithium projects and planned expansions by the largest producers in Chile “threaten to add” around 500,000 tonnes per year to global supply by 2025.


    “We expect these supply additions to swamp forecast demand growth,” Morgan Stanley said.
    As a result, the firm expects lithium carbonate prices to fall from $13,375 per tonne to $7,332 by 2021, and then towards the marginal cost of production at $7,030 thereafter.
    Analysts at the firm added that 2018 will be the last year of a global lithium deficit, as they expect “significant surpluses” from 2019 onwards.
    “It would take much higher EV penetration rates to offset these surpluses and balance the market,” the bank said. Battery electric cars would have to make up 31 percent of global sales in 2025 from less than 2 percent currently to “clear the market,” they noted.
    After Morgan Stanley released its forecast, lithium experts took to Twitter to share their thoughts and concerns.
    “Don’t usually comment on forecasts but the Morgan Stanley lithium one is ridiculous. When you understand even the basics of lithium, cathode and battery plants, and auto majors plans you realise the Morgan Stanley scenario has a 1 percent chance of happening,” Benchmark Mineral Intelligence Managing Director Simon Moores said.
    In a recent research note, analysts at Benchmark explained the main factors investors should keep an eye on when discussing potential oversupply in the market.
    According to the London-based firm, lithium prices are likely to move towards convergence rather than a crash, as the fundamentals of the lithium industry have not changed.
    “Quite simply, to impact the battery grade lithium carbonate and lithium hydroxide prices, battery grade product has to be produced and sold to cathode and battery makers,” Benchmark said.
    Lithium expert Joe Lowry also said that by predicting a steep lithium price decline the analysts at Morgan Stanley have proven they don’t understand supply, demand or the cost curve.
    Energy metals analyst Chris Berry commented on the report as well, saying that there is a low probability — though not zero — for the bank’s forecast to come true.
    “A LOT has to happen for this to come true: supply ramp successfully, conversion capacity ramp successfully, EV sales underwhelm, etc,” he said.
    Even so, Morgan Stanley’s report boosted fears of potential oversupply in the market, with major producers’ share prices plummeting on Monday (February 26).
    Chile’s SQM (NYSE:SQM) fell more than 9 percent to $53.01 in New York, as the bank cut its rating on the stock to “underweight” from “equal-weight.” Morgan Stanley also cut its rating on top producer Albemarle (NYSE:ALB), which plunged almost 8 percent to $109.18 in New York.
    The Global X Lithium ETF (NYSE:LIT), which tracks the full lithium cycle from mining and refining through battery production, was also down, falling 4 percent to $35.74.
     
    #12     Jun 27, 2018
    themickey likes this.
  3. Oh so true...and wow, copper is getting hammered right now.
    Whatever happened to the Chile copper miner strike ?
    Suddenly the market has shifted to a weak demand view because of the trade wars.
    I don't think that thinking is going to last.
    I'd be looking to go long here....the short covering will be fierce.
     
    #13     Jun 28, 2018
    vanzandt likes this.
  4. Snuskpelle

    Snuskpelle

    Demand from China dropping due to bear market over there? Just speculating on where to investigate further.
     
    #14     Jun 28, 2018
  5. Investigate China demand for copper....that's HUGE for this market.
     
    #15     Jun 28, 2018
  6. This recent move down has been somewhat historic / epic...no ?
    Wow, the metals complex continues to get hammered.
    Can anything turn it around ?
     
    #16     Jul 3, 2018
  7. maxinger

    maxinger

    lately copper price (or inverse of USD) is quite correlated with index futures.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2018
    #17     Jul 3, 2018
  8. themickey

    themickey

    Only thing to turn copper up is a weaker USD and a more robust mkt with both lacking atm.
    Lithium which one would think would be bullish is fairing even worse, I'm using lithium price as a bellwether on metals in general.
     
    #18     Jul 3, 2018
  9. maxinger

    maxinger



    METALS-Copper hits 9-month low amid trade tensions

    Reuters Staff

    3 Min Read

    * LME/ShFE arb: bit.ly/2wZSAE

    * GRAPHIC-2018 asset returns: tmsnrt.rs/2jvdmXl (Updates prices)

    By Zandi Shabalala

    LONDON, July 4 (Reuters) - Copper fell to a fresh nine-month low on Wednesday ahead of the implementation of trade tariffs on goods from China and the United States which could dampen demand for the industrial metal.

    ____________________

    hmmm. finally someone talk about copper trade tariffs thing.

    today there was one signal to short during early european session,
    and another one signal to short during early US session.

    today copper sure ended up long red candle.

    who knows, there might be another signal tomorrow asian session?
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2018
    #19     Jul 4, 2018
  10. treeman

    treeman

    I’m waiting until the daily pulls back to add to My short position
     
    #20     Jul 4, 2018