I think you are confusing the $150 monthly membership fee and the 1 time combine fee. You dont have to become a member. http://www.topsteptrader.com/membership
yes The "combine" fee is refunded if the trader makes any money. The combine fee is anywhere from $160-$450 depending on the size of the account. The membership fee of $150 a month is optional and you get discounts on the combines. looks like no refunds on membership fee. http://www.topsteptrader.com/Combine
If I could find a way to improve upon the model, sure, I would be willing to develop something. I also would not mind investing in the operation. Although I'm not sure that is being offered. What I meant to say is I don't feel comfortable just backing someone individually. Been there done that.
"""I don't have much interest in backing traders Don. And watching guys like cool trader dude blow out in 5 sessions doesn't help. I think TST's business model is interesting enough. Perhaps as a silent investor in the actual operation. But backing guys? Now I would love to be able to cherry pick some of the guys who make it through the combine and back them. But I don't think it works that way. """ you could do anything you wanted if you started your own version of the combine...breaking down the trader stats and seeing just how they trade...and for me ... I would even want to interview them slash maybe even watch them trade...to make sure i think they have what it takes...then you might really narrow your search and improve your chances of developing some good traders.
Frankly, I'm surprised at how little he knew going into the combine. I would not waste my money on a combine just to learn the basics of futures. When I started, I bought one of those intro to futures books, really cheap, read it cover to cover. Then after doing broker and platform research, I signed up for a free trial and played around on sim for the 2 weeks. By the time I started with the funded account at least I knew all the basics. If I were him I would have done a bit of homework on futures and then asked Patak for a weeks free trial before starting the combine. Get off to a good start and all that.
See, I have some thoughts on this. I spent 8 years at VTrader. I saw every type of trader imaginable. I can honestly tell you, there really was no ryhme or reason as to who ended up being a good trader. Some guys were smart as hell, others dumb as a fence post. Some guys worked really hard, some not at all. Some guys were very calm and cool, others were a train wreck. I spent a lot of time with these guys. And I can honestly tell you, there is no way I could pick the winners from a large data set. I think you are better off doing the TST combine approach where you throw 100's into a random combine and see who can swim. Some of the smartest and hardest working guys turned out to be the worst traders. And some guys who I thought shouldn't even work at the DMV made fortunes. That was a real eye opening experience.
So, as with many trading "clubs" on the web, advice, training etc. there is a monthly fee. Got it. Then if they want to pay additionally to enter the combine with the hopes of getting backed, they do so. And, if they make money, splitting it with the Firm, they get refunded that particular portion (combine) fees, great. Ok. Basically a carrot to get members of their online community, and, as you say, they disclose it all, and it's all legal, then sure, why not. Don