LOL, 0 for 5 hmm? I think I see how they are making it work, even suggested we might do it. A $30 fee to GS for access to a Demo account, but still not sure about legal issues. Even if they pay another $25 for NYSE, the $150 or whatever would cover it (from our end). I pass on the $50 for Ben to our traders who wish to have it, no mark ups or anything. My point, which Cooltraderdude agreed with, of paying to win the free ride? How is that wrong? And, if you're in the combine, and have paid $150 for 6 months, are you saying that if you make $1.00 of actual profit, you get that back? Now, that would be great, doubtful, but great. Since those are real fees they are paying? I'm really not hassling you or Mr. Patak, and, believe it or not, have kept myself awake trying to figure out their edge, which I now see, and it seems doable. And, I'm really glad to see you have something you feel so strongly about, good for you my friend. All the best, again, LOL Don
I went through a "trial by fire" training program. After making out spread tickets, learning all the greeks, and basics you noted above, he put me in as the first member of his group. Didn't go on my own for about 3 years. Your point above, is like my point about traders needing training before trading. What seem like basics to us, may not be to everyone, thanks... Don
Don, listen to what you are saying. If they pay $150 for 6 months it means they are not making money. Right? If they make money, yes, they get the fee back and TST eats the data fees and the news service. So NO cost to the trader. Still with me? If they lose money, let's say they end up doing your 6 combines and drop 2k on each of them. Would it be better for them to have lost 12k of their own capital or pay TST let's say 1k in combine fees? Just wondering. And Don, I don't feel strongly about this. I have ZERO association with the firm. I do support the futures markets and have for years and you and I have debated why you don't offer futures to your traders. I feel for this market being what it is, that this is a good way for guys to get into the business. Versus passing a series 7, spending 1k on fees and depositing 40k to a JBO and dealing with the regulations of the SEC. This is an "alternative" to that. Not better, not worse. Just an alternative.
Exactly. So 3 years you had to learn. Most guys on the option floors had to clerk first. It would be pointless for them to spend their money to stand in a pit and not even know what they are doing. Well Don, that is exactly what happened with this cool trader dude. He didn't know anything about futures. He couldn't figure out the software. He couldn't figure out which contract was the active month. He couldn't figure out what the trading hours were or even tick values. Guys have to learn Don. And I see no reason why someone should drop 10k to 30k learning this shit when they can do it for free. Once they learn it, they can apply to one of the better prop firms in Chicago (there are many). They can go to Patak. Or they can do what I suggest and fund their own account at someone like Velocity Futures. I think we are finally reverting to the mean here you and I.
I completely understand the alternatives, and we have always offered the better (IMO) alternative to retail trading. I am surprised that they are giving back all those hard costs back to the trader if he happens to make a few bucks the first month. That part I have to think about. Percentage wise, probably ok. And please stop saying "still with me" damnit, LOL. I know I'm old, but have not lost my mind yet. Still my favorite debater Mav, Don
I take it you didn't read my Mav's combine thread. LOL. I actually went through an intellectual debate with myself of how I would personally run a combine model. Many things were similar to TST and some were different. Just trying to make sure you don't fall too far back Don. I have to turn around sometimes and check ya know. I've always suspected that your blood pressure goes up when you debate me. I don't know why.
I don't have much interest in backing traders Don. And watching guys like cool trader dude blow out in 5 sessions doesn't help. I think TST's business model is interesting enough. Perhaps as a silent investor in the actual operation. But backing guys? Now I would love to be able to cherry pick some of the guys who make it through the combine and back them. But I don't think it works that way.