Conservatives hate government

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by kgharris, Oct 30, 2008.

  1. John McCain and Sarah Palin are proud conservatives. The poster soul mates of the Republican Party (except when they're throwing the other under the bus). Fair enough.

    We have a pretty good idea that conservatives don't like government. Indeed, most self-professed conservatives acknowledge this proudly. Never mind that someone who is against government is generally considered an anarchist and hated by conservatives - we'll let that slide for a moment. Even those so much against government they want their state, say, Alaska, to secede from the United States. Let that slide.

    "Limited government" is how they'd more likely describe it. And the more limited the better. Otherwise, why limit it? Never mind that if you're paying for anything but only getting the barest minimum service, you're generally throwing good money after bad, which is the very opposite of fiscal responsibility, which is how conservatives pride themselves - we'll let that slide for a moment. And never mind that John McCain just voted for the $700-billion government economic bailout package. We'll let that slide, too.

    Conservatives merely want government so limited it just gets out of our way. Never mind that having no government gets rid of Social Security, Medicare, the 40-hour work week, federal bank deposit insurance, power to rural America, child labor laws, public utilities, food and drug protections, FTC protections (like for, oh, poisoned lead paint in children's toys), and protections that keep levees and bridges (and economies) safe from collapsing, which are all the very moral values which help make America The Greatest Nation in the World that conservatives like to trumpet - oh, and government regulations of financial institutions - we'll even let all that slide for a moment.

    The conservatives belief is basic: to support the noble American tradition of personal responsibility, a man standing by himself, for himself, totally independent and free to do whatever an American wants. Except when it comes to having control of your own body, or who you sleep with. Or how you pray. Or, okay, who you talk to on the phone and in email (because, admit it, listening in on Americans having phone sex is apparently pretty darn fun after a long day of snooping). Or the important need for being totally dependent on a powerful, united military and defense to protect us because standing together in reliance on one another makes us stronger. Never mind that this contradictory, disingenuous and blind insistence on total self-reliance, answering to nobody but oneself, needing help from no one (except when you selfishly want it because it helps you) shines a spotlight back to the first point, that they don't like government - we'll let that slide for...

    Well, no, we won't let that slide. Contradictory, disingenuous and blind don't get a pass. Nor does an insistence on hating government, because that's what this is.

    Conservatives hate government so much they've developed what I like to call the "Please, God, Save Us From Ourselves" Initiatives. Or what they call "term limits." We already have term limits, of course - they're known as "elections." That's sort of the point of democracy and freedom, you let people vote for who they want to represent them - or not represent them. But conservatives seemingly don't feel they can be trusted with such responsibility. Sure, they'll say "term limits" are about off-setting the power of incumbency, but we all understand it's about keeping Democrats from staying in office. Honestly, if incumbency worked in favor of conservatives, do you really think we'd hear them begging for "term limits"?

    Of course, the true lunacy of "Please, God, Spare Us From Ourselves" term limits is that they make politics the only profession guaranteed to keep the best, most-skilled people from succeeding. As you get good at your job, you have to leave. Worse, they guarantee you won't attract many good people in the first place - how many highly-talented people do you think will get into a moderate-paying profession that forces you to disrupt your life, only to force you out near the end of your peak years, making you find a new line of work when you're middle-aged?

    Oh, yes, please, that's the career choice for me! Yes, that's a career choice sure to draw the best and brightest. I mean, yipes, those conditions ensure a self-fulfilling prophecy of getting the least-qualified, least-dynamic people running our government.

    And that's what conservatives want from government. Hey, way to go! At least it explains George Bush and Sarah Palin.

    This isn't how you put together a government. This is how you get volunteers to clean up following a social mixer, after all the smart people left early or got dates.

    Can you imagine any other profession like that? Let's get rid of our teachers after 12 years, just when they're figuring out how to teach. Let's get rid of our surgeons after eight years, just when you're going under the knife for an operation.

    Last week, financial expert Michael Bloomberg desperately found way to get around New York City's term-limit requirements, so he can stay mayor in the midst of the financial crisis. Agree or disagree with his efforts, yipes, that's sure the good government you're looking for - get rid of the world-class experts who can help you during a disaster.

    There's also a touch of twisted whimsy in all this. Before Republicans brought aboard their ticket a candidate who 21 months ago was in a job she first got elected to with 616 votes, they tried to make their case that John McCain should be elected president because he had the most "experience." That they're still trying to make that argument while proposing Sarah Palin be a heartbeat from the presidency is like a twisted combination of Lewis Carroll and George Orwell. But, boy, howdy, it sure is hard to make that argument about experience when you're the party of "term limits," and therefore on the record that experience doesn't matter.

    Liberals have their many flaws. But at least when they enter government service, it's because they believe in the good they think it can do.

    If conservatives don't like government, fine, their choice. But the honorable thing to do, then, is to quit running for office.

    by Robert J. Elisberg
  2. Neo-conservatives like government - and expand it readily - but they are fascists, so they want social control.

    Many neo-cons do not support Palin, and do not trust McCain - like neo-con Canadian David Frum (former Bush speech writer)...

    They do love Rudy Giuliani, though - and he was their candidate of hope in the 2008 US election.
  3. kut2k2


    Totally agree, and I don't know who disgusts me more: David Frum or Jonah Goldberg.
  4. Gord


    I read six straw men in the first two paragraphs and quit. Your brain is saturated with Democrat clichés.
  5. Some estimate that 40% of the funds raised by Obama came from Jews. Follow the money........
  6. Pabst,

    just a little fact: 70% of US-Israeli voters vote for the republicans. Go figure...
    It was reported by Ben Wedeman on CNN some weeks ago.
    ...neoconservatism is making a comeback — and not among the Republicans who have made it famous but in the Democratic Party.

    ..."With All Our Might: A Progressive Strategy for Defeating Jihadism and Defending Liberty." Beinart's book is subtitled "Why Liberals — and Only Liberals — Can Win the War on Terror and Make America Great Again." Their political champions include Connecticut Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman...

    "Why American Jews must vote for Bush"

    "The Democratic Party and the Jews" (neo-con gospel)

    "Rudy Giuliani's New Foreign Policy Team" (neo-con wonder boy and neo-con team)

    "Barack Obama and Israel"

    "Obama's Attitude on Lebanon, and the Palestinians"

    Pretty conflicting stuff, huh?
    But neo-conservatism is like a "bridge" between supporters - so they can easily support "many views at once."
  7. It is weird. In 2004 the only two foreign nations with poll respondents favoring Bush were Israel and Russia.

    There's an important though rarely discussed distinction between the politics of Orthodox Jews and secular socialist sheens. The Orthodox are social conservatives and obviously steadfast defenders of Israel. They vote Republican by decisive margins. The fake Jews are slightly less hawkish on Israel, social liberals (really only on abortion-they're the inventors of thought controlled PC speech) and they vote overwhelmingly Democrat.

    McCain is clearly less neo-con than Bush. Lieberman's allegiance to McCain has less to do with Israel than their decades long personal friendship. Lieberman is still vengeful toward anyone who endorsed Lamont against him in the Senate campaign....

  8. "Steadfast?"

    Remember - the neo-conservative core and ideologists/leaders are those who were once liberals, really outright communists and left-wing extremists - but then just switched allegiance while keeping their radicalism --- and being neo-conservative let them keep their old enemies, while focusing on religion as well and being "completely subjective/selfish/greedy."

    They are some of the most (falsely) paradoxical thinkers out there. They care nothing about but themselves, and project their wants on others. They seem to shift their allegiances quickly - to whoever is looking like a "winner" and stab others in the back, just like Richard Perle did with Bush.
  9. Gord


    What an idot you are - neoconservatism came out of an opposition to the new left which embraced socialism and communism.
  10. You obviously know nothing about the history and formulation of neo-conservatism with Irving Kristol and James Burnham - two former Trotskyists - together they formed the ideas in Burnham's book "Suicide of the West." Kristol became the founder of neo-conservatism - and just like Richard Perle, the leading neo-cons were former left-wing liberals and communists. Neo-cons were deeply disappointed by how the Soviet treated Jews, and then came over to the "conservative values" - hence the name neo-conservative. Furthermore they have an outright hatred of countercultures - with roots in the 1960s cultural liberation. The question/consideration of Israel has always been the strongest reverberation in their foreign policies - with the old arch enemies in the region.

    Try to educate yourself before you open your yap.
    #10     Oct 30, 2008