Conservative Options Trades

Discussion in 'Journals' started by danshirley, Aug 21, 2011.

  1. When a trade shows negative expectancy do you pass on it or take it and just manage it more closely?
     
    #911     Jan 21, 2015
  2. When a trade shows negative expectancy do you pass on it or take it and just manage it more closely?

    I usually will not take the trade... the exception is if recent events lead me to expect a more favorable price distribution in the future...which would imply a better expectation.

    The expectation I compute here is based on the distribution of past prices.
     
    #912     Jan 21, 2015
  3. But aren't the probabilities based on the options' IV rather than SV and therefore be forward-looking?
     
    #913     Jan 21, 2015
  4. MCD:

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/mcdonalds-mcd-beats-q4-earnings-155703939.html

    http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=MCD Key Statistics

    http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=mcd

    http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=MCD Interactive#

    Trade:
    with MCD at 89.74
    June 100/105 bear call spread for a net credit of $30
    Yield = 30/470 = 6.38% in 147 days or 15.8% annualized
    Prob = 82%
    Expectation = .82(30) - .094(470) - .09(235) = 24.6 - 44.2 - 21.15 = -40.8

    Price.....................Profit / Loss..................ROM%
    70.00.........................30.00........................6.38%
    80.00.........................30.00........................6.38%
    90.00.........................30.00........................6.38%
    100.00.......................30.00........................6.38%
    100.30.........................0.00........................0.00%
    105.00.....................(470.00)....................-94.00%
    105.42.....................(470.00)....................-94.00%
    120.00.....................(470.00)....................-94.00%
    130.00.....................(470.00)....................-94.00%
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2015
    #914     Jan 23, 2015
  5. UPS:

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ups-takes-hit-during-holidays-142244501.html

    http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=ups

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/stockdetails/fi-126.1.UPS.NYS?symbol=UPS&form=PRFIEQ

    http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=UPS Key Statistics

    Trade:
    with UPS at 102.93
    Jul 115/120 bear call spread for a net credit of $48
    yield = 48/452 = 10.6% in 174 days or 22.2% annualized

    Price................Profit / Loss..............ROM %
    90.00...................48.00....................10.60%
    100.00.................48.00....................10.60%
    110.00.................48.00....................10.60%
    115.00.................48.00....................10.60%
    115.48..................0.00......................0.00%
    120.00..............(452.00).................-90.40%
    125.00..............(452.00).................-90.40%
    135.00..............(452.00).................-90.40%
    150.00..............(452.00).................-90.40%
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2015
    #915     Jan 24, 2015
  6. rickty

    rickty

    Hey Dan,
    You forgot to include the expectation calculation for the UPS trade:
    Prob = 81.7%
    Expectation = .817(48) - .123(452) - .064(226) = 39.2 - 55.6 - 14.46 = -30.8
    (You're welcome :) )
     
    #916     Jan 25, 2015
  7. What source did you use for your probability numbers?
     
    #917     Jan 25, 2015
  8. rickty

    rickty

    TOS platform
     
    #918     Jan 25, 2015
  9. AAPL

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bull-day-apple-aapl-bull-060006551.html

    http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=AAPL

    Trade:
    with AAPL at 113.85
    Mar 95/90 bull put spread for a net credit of $26
    Yield = 26/474 = 5.5% in 53 days or 38% annualized
    Prob = 91%
    Expectation = .91(26) - .04(474) - .05(237) = 23.7 - 19.0 - 11.8 = -7.1

    Price...............Profit / Loss............ROM %
    70.00...............(474.00).................-94.80%
    80.00...............(474.00).................-94.80%
    90.00...............(474.00).................-94.80%
    94.74....................0.00.....................0.00%
    95.00...................26.00....................5.50%
    96.86...................26.00....................5.50%
    110.00.................26.00....................5.50%
    120.00.................26.00....................5.50%
    130.00.................26.00....................5.50%
     
    #919     Jan 26, 2015
  10. Hi Oldnemesis,

    I am a bit confused by the way how you calculate the expectation for your trades. In APPL's case, shouldn't be like this:

    Expectation = 0.91 x 26 + 0.04 x (-474) + 0.05 x ((26 - 474) /2) = -6.5

    Also, in a previous post you mentioned that you are getting the probability numbers from TOS. Is there a way to have TOS calculate the expectation for a trade as well?

    TIA.
     
    #920     Jan 26, 2015