Confusion about the deficit

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Ricter, Jun 2, 2012.

  1. Mav88

    Mav88

    A little about Brad Delong. It's important since he influential among liberals, and Richter thinks his work is some sort of economic gospel.

    Brad thinks we in the west owe the third world a living. He knows that it results in American jobs lost but his answer to that is obvious to a liberal, government run retraining programs. Say a 45 year old manufacturing engineer with 3 kids loses his job to an Indian, then he simply retrains for .... for... well Brad didn't exactly fill that in, probably a nurse or accountant eh?. Oh how I want us to outsource economists and make Brad retrain, but the point is he punts to government to make his liberal visions seem plausible. Details? oh the government will figure them out as we all know government is so good at that. There's a second little fact in all this, Brad knows that this results in lower american wages, they call it 'wage compression'. So not only do you have to retrain, you get lower pay as a result. Brad doesn't care about that, to him it's social justice.

    I read a lot of his crap to find this out. One day I read one of his blogs and he stated something like "As my young son sits in front of me, I don't want to tell him when he grows up that we held India in poverty." I wish I had bookmarked it but I can't find it now. So Brad's primary motivation is to feel good about what he did for India to make his son proud, assuming his son cares. The American worker will just have accept a lower wage and depend on gov't retraining. Not only does Brad want to redistribute, he wants to redistribute to India. I say we compress Brad's wages immediately and send it over there.

    Here's something from his blog that reinforces the point, that we are responsible for the third worlds poverty (the old zero sum game model, somhow you took something from them).

    http://www.j-bradford-delong.net/movable_type/2004-2_archives/000262.html

    note how much of a jerk he can be to others, note how he writes on and on about poor Indians but not one mention of displaced americans



    We have STOLEN their option to make mats by not buying! I am ceaslessly amazed at the logical sophistry of liberals. It all boils down to this, they simply hate that western civ is successful need to bring it down for emotional reasons, or they simply hate I don't know. I cannot explain this any other way.


    So now you are a THIEF if you don't buy Indian goods. What can I say, these people are sick, they are incurably hateful ass holes. These are the folks behind Ricter's plan. trust them?
     
    #21     Jun 3, 2012
  2. Nice work Mav!
     
    #22     Jun 3, 2012
  3. Tsing Tao

    Tsing Tao

    I admit to not reading anything but the OP, but the OP is flawed because it assumes that spending in the government is at 100% efficiency and no more such efficiency can be obtained. This is, of course, horseshit and there are numerous places to cut funding without materially cutting services and output through simple redesign.

    So it is possible to materially cut the deficit simply by creating synergies and efficiencies in current governmental programs. Of course, I'd like to take it a step further and actually cut programs that do not work or do not do what they were designed to do in the first place.

    Keynesians will cry rivers over this, but that is to be expected, because Keynesian Theory is flawed.
     
    #23     Jun 4, 2012
  4. Lucrum

    Lucrum

    + 15.75 Trillion and counting...
     
    #24     Jun 4, 2012
  5. IMO you're wrong about the baby boomers, of which I am one. We're not paying for what boomers have. We're paying for what the previous generation already received. We're paying for their sweet pension plans. We're paying for all that free heath care insurance they received while employed. We're paying for the 500% increase in their property values they enjoyed. We're paying for the huge wage and benefit increases they had while working. It's the tab come due for all of that which is busting our balls.
    Yes, the "greatest generation" saved the world during WW II, and yes they survived a depression as youngsters, and they were hard workers, but they were paid in spades and paid very, very well for their sacrifices.
    This is not an argument about whether or not they deserved all those bennies. It is simply the facts.

     
    #25     Jun 4, 2012
  6. jem

    jem

    I will reconsider... you made some good points. Being in front of the early boom, sure worked for my dad. He made a lot of money trading in front of baby boomer trends... including housing. And my mom still collects her social security even though she does not need. She talks about earning it.

    She taught school for 3 or 4 years. she probably put in less than a month or twos payment.

    I think SS needs to be means tested.
    I think govt workers should pay an extra 10% income tax until the budget is balanced and no raises.
     
    #26     Jun 4, 2012
  7. I don't think there is anything necessarily wrong in the premise of the Tyson article. Deficits are not the end of the world, can stimulate growth and can be repaid from a grwoing economy. That is pretty much the premise of Reaganomics or supply side economics, both of which have been mocked by liberals for decades. Suddenly now that they need the money to throw a desperate Hail Mary pass to try to secure Obama's reelection, they are supply siders? It seems a bit fishy.

    Of course, liberals like laura Tyson have no intention of running a supply side deficit. One in which lowered taxes and regulatory burdens goose the private sector. Oh no, they want to fund government "investments" in stuff like education, green energy and boondoggles like the highspeed train to Vegas, all built by unionized workers. In other words, more of what Obama has pissed away trilliions on already. More payoffs to unions and more Solyndras.

    Voters instinctively know that thrrowing money away like that will not help the economy. If we know one thing, it is that government is no good at picking winners and losers and is wasteful. Take a look at the GSA scandal or TSA if you doubt it.

    Also, like a lot of liberal arguments in favor of spending programs, her article implicitly assumes we aren't already running an almost unprecedented degree of stimulus. We are already borrowing a scary amount of the federal budget. They say we need to borrow even more. After all, rates will always be low, right?

    We don;t need to look to Greece or Portugal to see where this ends up. We can look at California and Illinois, which have been pursuing the Obama economic plan for years. Now they want the rest of us to bail them out.
     
    #27     Jun 4, 2012
  8. I totally disagree with means testing social security. Any republican who supports it should be targeted for defeat.

    There are two fundamental reasons for my position. One, people paid into social security their whole working lives on the lie that it was a retirement plan. Of course, it was a ponzi scheme, but any politician who made that claim found out what touching the third rail of Amercian politics felt like. But now, when the truth can't be hidden, they want to continue the lie a few more years by "means testing." Sorry, that wasn't the deal we made. if I paid into an insurance company annuity for 30 years, then when it was time to cash out they said, we have some cash flow problems and have decided to means test benefits, we'd be yelling for the SEC and Justice Department. Same principle.

    Two, means testing is just a codeword for another tax increase on the upper middle class, ie the people who already pay 90 % of taxes. Even worse, it punishes the very behavior we should be encouraging, eg savings and financial responsibility. It
    s just like Santelli's famous rant that started the Tea Party movement. You gonna bail out these people who took down mortgages they couldn't afford to speculate in houses? What about the people who saved and bought what they could afford? Who's bailing them out?

    And once you start down that slippery slope, don't think it stops with social security. No way. It will be medicare, then IRAs and 401k plans. After all, why should you get to retain all your IRA if you don't "need" it? See, we're all in this together and have to share the sacrifices equitably. King Obama will decide how much you get to keep.
     
    #28     Jun 4, 2012
  9. It's not a popular position to target the greatest generation, but it is what it is. We're all so hung up on who to blame, myself included, we can't focus on the solutions, all of which will be painful. The biggest problem as I see it is how do we distribute that pain fairly and not destroy the economy in the process. Blue collar will rightfully say, our belts are tight enough. The wealthy will rightfully say, we're paying enough, fix your spending problem. Somewhere, somebody has to do what's best for the country, and right now all we have is lip service and flag wavers. That won't get it done.

     
    #29     Jun 4, 2012
  10. Ricter

    Ricter

    Cap'n, why would the wealthy say that!? They ARE government.
     
    #30     Jun 4, 2012