Competition in this field - programming

Discussion in 'App Development' started by Aquarians, Feb 1, 2020.

  1. Aquarians


    I ranted some time ago that while looking for quant jobs on LinkedIn, I noticed an ordinary job post (no big name or big money mentioned) with 1048 applicants. What shocked me was that the job was posted just 17 hours previously. So getting ahead in this field has become a ruthless numbers game.

    Now, more to how fucked the field of programming is. A few days ago I swallowed the vomit that automatically gags in my mouth just when thinking about it and tried to create an account on UpWork. Thought it might worth a try getting in contact with some of the high bidders who have "quant" or "options trading" in their posts. Well, I got rejected. Three times, automatically, with the message "sorry, skills not in demand". Tried to contact a human being for a more elaborate answer, not fucking possible, it's all automated machine-gunning there. Eventually I found a FAQ of them which says "we have more than 10,000 applicants each day but only allow a few". Now this strikes me as a very weird business model, unlike Facebook or LinkedIn who are more than happy to increase their user base.

    But Jesus fucking Christ! The field has become so crappy that even the bottom of the shitthole known as UpYoursWork is now machine gunning programmers with 20 years of industry of experience like they'd do to the rookiest rookie.

    The path forward is clear:
    1) Keep my crappy job because the grass is only browner on the other side of the fence.
    2) Play the lottery and try to beat the numbers game. This necessarily means break out of the anonymous 10,000 mowed-down victims and make myself and possible (I'd say necessary) associates a name.
    themickey likes this.
  2. newwurldmn


    I would hire you in 10 seconds.... you sound like a joy to work with.
  3. SanMiguel


    You're competing globally on Upwork and sites like freelancer. It's just impossible because someone in India is easily going to be able to undercut you, generate lots of reviews, etc.
    Most firms want maths, statistics backgrounds...
    ET180 likes this.
  4. Pretty much that. I hung out on a similar site for about a year after my university time and was among 0.01-0.1% top ranked, but failed to create a business model sustainable with the living costs in my country Sweden.

    If you live in Sweden/US etc. you pretty much need a job in similar countries to enable a normal life unless we're talking some high up stuff (I don't doubt being a CTO in India pays well to make an exaggerated example).
  5. Aquarians


    I already have a job, I mean with almost 20 years in the field of programming, this is pretty much self-understood. What I merely tried is to register on UpWork. I find it deeply upsetting that I got rejected and add insult to injury that ALL their fucking customer support system is completely automated and you can essentially only interact with robots. Robots with life or death authority over human beings!

    I know I'm not supposed to care, nothing to see. move along, if you don't like it then don't be here. But they're the authority in the field of whatever their field would be and I find their business model deeply broken and distopyan.

    If I could I'd make the piece of shits illegal, at least in civilized places like EU. If you don't provide a human being for customer support then fuck off to the pithole of civilization where you came from!
    themickey and Snuskpelle like this.
  6. SteveM


    "I'm successful because I skate to where the puck is going, not where it has been." -Wayne Gretzky


    When it comes to programming jobs, it sounds like the puck "has been" in the hedge fund/investment industry, but now that space is incredibly crowded and profits are shrinking with the rise of passive investing, lack of hedge fund outperformance, and cannibalization of the industry.

    On the other end of the spectrum, companies can't find enough competent programmers in industries such as supply-chain optimization, AI, drone technology, driverless technology, health data, big data processing, etc...seems like that is where the puck is going.

    There is a true story about a guy who was a store owner....he kept getting skimmed by his employees for years on end, but had grown to accept it as the reality of doing business. One day, a salesman comes along, and tries to sell him a newly invented item called the "cash register". The store owner buys one of these devices, and overnight his store profits increase 20%. Realizing what a miracle device this cash register was, what does the owner do? He immediately closed his store and went into the "cash register" selling business, and became insanely successful. There is a life lesson in that story.
    qlai and nooby_mcnoob like this.
  7. Apologies, I was mostly elaborating on the post previous to mine.

    True, I find the automated rejection systems everywhere deeply troubling too. Tangentially, China has taken this to an extreme with their new social credit system, I hope we're not sliding to that in the west as well.
  8. Aquarians


    Getting rejected automatically AS A FIRST STEP IN A MULTILEVEL PROCESS, when you've got 10,000 applicants and your business model only accepts a few, might be acceptable... as long as it's acceptable to practice this sort of inhumane culling, but that's another talk.

    But not being able to make a recourse to a breathing, soul-possessing human being, that's definitely inhumane.

    And like you said, I for once hope this piece of shits practices don't get pervasive in the West, and I include myself (Romanian) here too, we're still on that geographical axis if you look from the places where these practices originate - India, China, let's call them by the name.
  9. IAS_LLC


    Programming by itself is no longer a valuable skill by itself. It's like putting Microsoft office products on your resume under software proficiencies....

    Your value is your domain knowledge...not tools that help you solve generic problems.

    You're selling the wrong pen.
    ET180, cafeole, zdave83 and 4 others like this.
  10. Aquarians


    >> Your value is your domain knowledge... not tools that help you solve generic problems.

    That reduces competition rougly 100x. From 1 in 10,000 wannabees to 1 in 100. Does it still work for you, given that the competitors are now much, much more triaged?

    I once competed in an University admission exam with such as the 100x guys on a 10 for 1 place starting ground. I failed but it wasn't so bad actually, it's the first time where I saw the kind of behavior I exhibited some 10 years previously where I refused to obliterate my adversary - a sophistication you don't get to practice in a 1 against 10,000 game.

    Then in the next year I competed 3 for 1 place against 10x guys and came out first :)

    This "domain knowledge" is what I'm trying to replicate when I'm taking on such low lifes as UpWork.

    Lemme start from reproducing you what my math PhD teacher has told me: "I'm being unmodest". Well, I wanna be the first rich guy who reaches to trillionaire so that's that. Why I need a trillion? Because I want to change the world. Changing the world requires first and foremost energy, or else I'm nothing but the 10,001 guy the piece of shits mow down. A lot of it, or else I'm nothing but the 10,001 guy the piece of shits mow down. And money is energy.

    I already started a a trillion dollar business and will in the near future start publishing and marketing it. But my diet of quantitative finance might not be everyone's piece of cake so here are layman-world alternatives:

    1) Intermediating between freelancers and customers: compete with UpWork.
    2) Intermediating between employees and employers: compete with LinkedIn.
    3) Intermediating between entrepreneurs: compete with CofoundersLab.
    4) Intermediating between startups and investors: compete with Kickstarter.

    #0 is taking down Black Rock but that's just my preference.

    What would be yours from the options above or unmentioned ones?
    #10     Feb 1, 2020