liltrdr - cost of living is certainly a factor (among others). When I worked in NYC about 6-7 years ago, my apartment cost $3K/month. It wasn't a crappy studio though - two bedrooms with walls of glass and a view of the harbor and the Statue of Liberty. But by the same token, at the same time I could have rented an enormous penthouse in Chicago for the same money. Regardless of whether it's a "crappy studio" or not, overall it's reasonable to expect that the NYC cost of living is at least twice as much as somewhere like Chicago. Also have to factor in tax differentials - NY/NYC taxes are more than twice as much as in someplace like Chicago. The overall differential is less when compared to places like San Francisco, Washington DC (not a financial center, just including it to highlight that all things are relative), etc. So it depends on where you're moving from. Might or might not be of concern for you in the short term, but there's also the issue of quality of living - not just cost of living. For instance, consider things like if you're going to be working down in the Wall St. area but can't afford to or don't want to live near there, do you want to look forward to everyday cramming yourself (along with the great unwashed masses - and I mean that literally in this case) into the subway to and from work (NYC's subway is personally my least favorite subway of any major city). Or if you live "off island" and plan to drive, fighting your way through truly horrendous traffic (then also factor in cost of parking and high auto insurance). Except for Hong Kong, NYC is also the only place where I've routinely seen a vortex of swirling garbage whipped up by the wind and visible out a window on the 6th floor. After having lived there for several years and working in the Wall St area, I can tell you that I much prefer to just visit it. But if you've got a great opportunity that'll advance your career, you can usually put up with almost anything for a few years. Just be sure you fully understand what you're getting into so that you're up for it. And who knows, you might end up being one of the "I love NYC" crowd afterall. Good luck.
I know that NY taxes are high. Anybody have any numbers on this? I remember from an old econ course that the marginal tax rate can be as high as 50 percent in NYC. Can anybody shed some light on this? I might move to NYC and sign on w/ a prop firm if I'm sure about rent taxes and or terrorists .
Why would you call Arb an idiot? Because he'd rather be at a top firm instead of a small prop firm? I question your rationale. And what's with you just jumping in on this thread and calling people idiots and pinheads? Is it possible that you are jealous that you didn't graduate from an Ivy league school? You need to settle down.
I would like to throw something out, just for fun. The "prop" firms do more shares on the exchange than the "top" firms for the most part. I know we (Bright) did over 5 billion shares last year on the NYSe, and I am told that is more than most of the retail firms. I believe that the bigger firms, Bright, Schonfeld, ETG, and Generic account for about 25% of the entire volume, throw in WorldCo, L&W, and Andover and the number is much higher. Just because a "banking/broker" firm has a big name, doesn't mean that they are "bigger" (at least volume wise). The part I like the best is that we can do it without a big bureacracy of "paper passers" and "order takers" - we just trade, and I like it that way. I will say that the "thinning of the herd" has left thousands without "jobs" in the industry....which, in the long run, will be of benefit to those who actually trade for a living.
it's really a matter of perspective/time frame/market orientation....if you're a scalper you have to trade more, if you're with a larger firm you're positioning for a longer time frame, adding to winners (hopefully) and building a position. to imply somehow that prop firms are "better" because of volume suggests a lack of understanding of the range of market participants, their goals in the market.... firm traders might say, "don't sweat for peanuts"... mbs
I doubt it, at least not "naked" positions. These "firms" don't "trade," they are almost always playing one thing against another (a la LTCM.) If they are "building postions" as you say, they had better be doing it hedged against something else. Otherwise, why the hell do they need the quants? To tell them that the market is unpredictable once you get about ten minutes out? nitro
Don, Your right. "small prop. firms" was the wrong phrase. Axe hawk, I am not going to shamelessly promote myself, if you detected a bit of resentment in my post you are mistaken. I simply call it like I see it. As far as settling down, you are probably right I think that I will go to the beach for lunch.
Hey Don, why don't you post the numbers of the top Bright Traders? I know Hitman does that all the time in his thread. The thread is compensation for traders at top firms. And Bright is a top firm...so let's see some numbers! No names and or pix of hot trader chix required.
I know some daytrading firms used to give net P/L figures for offices to give some idea of the success rate at their firms. But they stopped this practice due to the low net profits traders were acheiving (but still healthy commisions for the firm.) I doubt he will give percent profitable figures simply cause it would hurt newcomers thinking about entering the business. There are no privacy issues at stake. Just integerty on the accuracy of the numbers. However, i believe the reverse is true if the mkt was different like 2 years ago. Many firms couldn't stop bragging and enticing the newcomer. PS. damn i wish they had a spell check on this site!
i beg to differ.....position traders at wall st firms do indeed trade...quants are used primarily in the derivatives market (thought we were talking straight equities trading).....while positions are indeed "hedged" that does not make them any less of a trade.... btw, ltcm went down due primarily to exposure in emerging market bonds (gkos in large part) and currency carry trades, not stock trading... my point was that daytrading is not the only or best trading out there....