CME - Why Smart Money Trades Spreads

Discussion in 'Trading' started by bone, May 14, 2020.

  1. BAT31

    BAT31

    I keep reading comments about small account size and large account size. Can anyone here define what constitutes a small account and what constitutes a large account?
     
    #41     May 17, 2020
  2. bone

    bone

    That’s not a well informed post tbh.

    I’ve had clients fund Advantage accounts with $25K - Sometimes less.

     
    #42     May 17, 2020
    BAT31 likes this.
  3. MrMuppet

    MrMuppet

    account size can be much lower with spreads depending on the market you trade. @bone what are span margins on Eurodollars these days? 150-500$ on inters?
    You don't need much of an account to swingtrade STIR spreads...with energy, things are different, tho.
     
    #43     May 17, 2020
    Gambit and bone like this.
  4. bone

    bone

    Most GE Butterflies and Condors are between $175-$375 ish depending on leg duration and overall convexity

    Most inter market energy spreads (CL, NG, HO, RBOB) are several hundred dollars to maybe a couple thousand tops in margin

    Your point is spot on - you can swing trade and carry all sorts of spreads for days, weeks, even months with a really modest account. I’ve got clients that carry several different spread positions simultaneously with accounts < $30K no problems

     
    Last edited: May 17, 2020
    #44     May 17, 2020
  5. heispark

    heispark

    I found deep discount broker Ironbeam (or any other brokers using Ironbeam as clearing) recognizes reduced spread trading margin. Ironbeam's size is similar to AMP's. So, if you're low budgeted like me, you can choose either Advantage or Ironbeam. :thumbsup:
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2020
    #45     May 18, 2020
  6. heispark

    heispark

    I also found Advantage supports Rithmic although it's not mentioned in their website. (Rithmic supports exchanged supporting spread trading.)
     
    #46     May 18, 2020
    bone likes this.
  7. Edgeclear (FT71's shop) is an IB for Ironbeam.. fyi
     
    #47     May 21, 2020
  8. bone

    bone

    If you are going to seriously trade spreads, you will be served best by a large established Chicago FCM that already clears proprietary firms, commercials, and big specs whose majority strategy is some type or flavor of spread trading. It's well worth the few cents more in commissions. I would happily exchange getting correctly margined within seconds on a Eurodollar Butterfly with paying a few more cents per side in commissions. Gladly.

    The only exception would be an Investment Bank Prime Brokerage - so if you have a good sized hedge fund that is a very appealing option because of the myriad advantages associated with an omnibus account.

    You need a firm that pays the $$$ to retain really top tier Risk and IT personnel. There is not an automated strategy or a spread or arbitrage that you can dream up that RJ OBrien hasn't already seen and supported. You could not say the same about any discount broker that I've personally seen or been made aware of.
     
    #48     May 21, 2020
    theledger likes this.
  9. Bone: Might be good to post the margin for say a Eurodollar butterfly so others can compare and see what they get.. but Eurodollar butterflys might not be good example since they are implied.. might be good to see on some synthetic spread like a Crude Doublefly or Condor and see what people are missing from going to a proper FCM
     
    #49     May 21, 2020
    bone likes this.
  10. bone

    bone

    I get PM'ed all the time by ET traders who will put on a spread (even exchange supported!!) and their discount broker margins each leg as outright flat price risk. Which is insane.

     
    #50     May 21, 2020