I am also curious... If inflation is indeed just "creation of money out of thin air", what are we going to do about Japan? Does this mean that all this time we've been misled and Japan is actually undergoing incredible sneaky inflation that we're somehow not seeing?
Jueco, Martingoul makes a good point. Japan has been increasing its base money supply for years and the effect has simply been to increase excess reserves in thier system...same as is happening here...same as what happened in the Great Depression. Japan is anonther example of how you don't get inflation measured by price change indexes where private credit is not expanding. You may doubt it, but absent any expression of a basis for you doubt, your comment must be understood as uninformed...another one of those time things, like pesky details. Greece started growing again in 2011 and its debt was recently upgraded by S&P. Although Iceland stated its intention to join the Euro in 2009, public opinion is now against EU membership as unemployment has come down from over 9% to now 5.5%. The government projects a current surplus in 2012 and it is paying down its debts. The recievership of the foreign assets of the bankrupt Iceland banks is likely to raise enough money to pay the U.K. and Netherlands claims on 'Icesave' that Iceland defaulted on ...so that issue has gone away. Iceland is now refocused on growing the income from its fishing and energy resources (including geothermal).
Erm, I am not sure where you're getting this from, Ed. I hate to be the one to tell you that this just ain't the case.
Martingoul, I can cite to the figures and statements I posted. They come from articles published this year. Before I do that, I think, since you challenged the figures asserted, it is up to you to post support for your refutation. I notice you didn't say anything but that its not right. What specific data are you refering to? What is the right data? What source for data are you relying on? Where can I look it up? I know that Iceland's GDP declined in the last quarter, consistent with a world wide slow down, but I also understand that their GDP for the year is still up. I also know that Greece had a negative GDP in 2009 and a less negative GDP in comparison for 2010. If there is some other fact you dispute you should identify it and say what the correction is. It is important to be factually correct so we should straighten this out. Nonetheless, the point of my comment was that Iceland is doing much better than Greece, or Ireland for that matter. The point is valid, even as we parse out this important data detail.
Sure, I am happy to discuss Iceland and Ireland and Greece, as, to quote the famous author again, every one of them is unhappy in its own way. However, my specific point was about your erroneous statements on Greece. I attach the chart of Greek Real GDP YoY (sa). Notice it hasn't gone positive since Q3-2008 (it's not much different for nominal GDP, which has been negative since Q2-2010). The last S&P upgrade of Greek sov debt L-T rating occurred in June 2003. In contrast, the last downgrade, from CCC to CC, occurred in July this year.
And, for your viewing pleasure, I attach the history of Greek sov ratings actions (foreign ccy, L-T debt, S&P).
Please don't get involved in this thread. For such a [ET] contentious topic, this thread is fairly civilized and on point.
Martingoul, I don't understand your response. You said that my assertions about Iceland's economy where wrong. I didn't quote any facts about the Greek GDP or its Sovereign Debt Ratings. I ask you to back up your claim that my data about Iceland was wrong...and you post charts about Greece? So what? I agree that Greece is not doing well. That was my point. What is your point? Oh, I see the confusion...and it is me!....I wrote 'Greece' in my post that you resonded to when I meant to write 'Iceland'...damn fingers! I would go back and make an edit but its too late! Martingoul...I'm sorry...wasn't it clear by context that I was talking about Iceland growing and not Greece?
It appears that martingoul wasn't crazy - see your own quote below. But rereading the context I suppose you meant to say Iceland here instead of Greece?