Cisco-Futures Training

Discussion in 'Technical Analysis' started by FJMcC, Apr 3, 2009.

  1. FJMcC


    Is anyone familiar with this outfit for Market Profile type anaylsis and modeling training. Just gave their site a quick look through after listiening to a few CME educational webinars regarding MP. The gentleman who gave the seminars, Tom Anderson, recomended this site, going as far as saying, and I paraphrase, "Jones extensive research into MP and auction market theory is the kind of work instituions pay 10's of thousands of dollars for, and a lot of it is free to retail traders at his site".

    Just hate to be a sucker and shell out money for yet another worthless course. That said, these seem like respected guys in the industry, I have known many serious professional traders here in Chicago who use MP as there market framework, and would love to find a course that could be bring up to profficiency level.

    I have tried to read some of the posts in this forum, and to be honest I have a hard time following and visualizing the concepts. Cisco looked like they take it slowly and allow you to build for scratch.

    Just trolling for a recomendation, thanks in advance.

  2. russ1


    I have completed the Cisco course, as well as almost every other course on Market Profile that I could find. Let me share a few thoughts:
    Don Jones at Cisco seems an exceptional guy who is interested in sharing knowledge with others. He has an exceptional track record and likely does not need the money Cisco brings him. He is very available, often answering the phone himself at Cisco......and when he does answer, he is willing to talk and advise. So initially you might try calling him.
    I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
    I found Market Profile intuitively reasonable from the start, so since the day I read about it, I have directed my energies in this direction. Unfortunately, that was 3 years ago and I am only a breakeven trader, so my advice may be worth nothing. Nonetheless, I know I continue to progress in both trading skills and Market Profile knowledge.
    Though I found Cisco helpful, I found DLC profiles with Jim Dalton to be more in depth. I posted the answer below to another question about MP trading:

    I have spent over two years studying material presented by DLC profiles.
    I am only moderately successful as of yet, but am progressing.

    My opinion of DLC:
    Terry and Jim are honest and have a strong desire to help developing traders;
    Their commitment is unquestionable.
    No one in the business knows as much about Market Profile as Jim Dalton.

    The development is slow, since the primary aim of DLC is not to teach trading setups, but to teach new traders how to think about the motivations behind those moving the market.

    The intensive weeklong seminars are expensive but helpful (I attended one)
    The ongoing educational series is unquestionably worth the money for those intending to base trading strategies around market profile.

    You will not learn specifics about entry or exit, nor money management.

    I recommend you try the ongoing educational series AFTER reading dalton's two books a few times.

    In the end I think there are several reasonable resources for MP trading. These include first the CBOT website, then Jim Dalton's two books, Cisco, and DLC profiles.
    I hope this helps.
  3. FJMcC



    Thanks for the time you took to reply. I really appreciate it. I was drawn to MP because it seems like a well developed methodology for viewing and analyzing the markets. The set-up portion is important to me, because I would like to make some money and at least keep myself in the game while I hopefully gain proficiency, but it is the idea of really understanding the way markets work that is drawing me to MP. I will read the books you suggest and try to determine the value MP will have for me.

    My goal is to trade interest rate futures on a short term basis and really learn how to make a living. I guess the 64,0000$ question is will I be able to do that if I put the work in and learn MP and it's offshoots, or is this just a tool for general overview, and thus should I be pursueing other "Tactical" methods while I take the time to learn?

    I mean, I really see the value of MP and AMT, but it scares me when someone says "it has a lot of value, it's a great lens, and after two years I am starting to be kind of profitable" :)

    Well, thanks, I guess I will be be starting my quest now!

  4. russ1



    It is what it is.

    I told you about my lack of proficiency, so you can judge for yourself what my opinion is worth, perhaps not much.

    I too trade interest rate futures.
    Despite my struggles I look now at where I was when I started and simply shake my head, thankful I did not lose more money. My knowledge has increased exponentially. But this is a very tough competitive business.
    There might be new traders, with no backround in the business, who could come into this and make money quickly, ............but I suspect those are few and far between. There is simply too much too learn, about trading and about your own predispositions.
    It is like any other profession.

    When I started with MP I met several floor traders from NYMEX who were being forced off the floor by computerization and thus were looking for a method to trade from home. Several that I remain in touch with still struggle. Perhaps that is a reflection of using MP, perhaps simply the difficulties of trading.

    I would also tell you that my biggest problem with market profile was deciding how and where to place stops.
    It is not a charting method that lends itself as easily to setting stops as short term High,Low,Close bar method charting.

    If you have not already done it, read Mark Douglas' books Trading in the Zone and The Disciplined Trader. They can keep you out of trouble.

    With regard to the long time it takes to become profitable in this business..............Mark Cook told me one time "you wouldn't want it any other way......that makes it tough on would be competitors".
    He also told me to "enjoy the journey"

    Good luck.
  5. I told you about my lack of proficiency, so you can judge for yourself what my opinion is worth, perhaps not much.

    I think your opinion is very valuable. Little of the stuff for sale works. If you spent the time and the years and it did not work, then it probably does not work. it is the MP, not you

    People keep dreaming up things that let others "trade the markets." MP, Gann, Elliott Wave, Fib levels, technical indicators, etc. etc. etc.

    UNder serious testing, most of this stuff fails.

    The only reason these things keep being used, is because "there is a sucker born every minute." People confuse belief with edge.
  6. 1) Focus on identifying "initiating range extension" activity and the "responsive" activity that follows. That should help to keep you trading with the trend and give you a better idea of when you are "wrong".
    2) Try not to get hung up on the philosophical and metaphysical stuff. :cool: