Choose Bright or Echo?

Discussion in 'Prop Firms' started by exce26, Nov 1, 2001.

  1. ericdh


    Looking into Bright, Echo and a couple other prop/prof firms and see that their is quite a bit of competition as evidenced by the decreasing fees, per share charges etc. over what was charged just a couple years ago.

    It seems the Redi system is used by several firms, and Echo uses a different system that seems at least as good. Both Bright and Echo appear to charge remote traders 200/mo desk charge which can be rebated. One difference though, which could add up to quite a bit if trading naz issues is that Bright doesn't pass on ecn fees while it appears Echo does. Can anyone confirm this for me?

    Also, can anyone who has traded both software sytems comment on whether there is much difference for scalping, tight stop type trades?
    #41     Jan 3, 2002
  2. cashonly

    cashonly Bright Trading, LLC

    I can confirm this... no ECN fees, no cancellation charges.
    #42     Jan 4, 2002
  3. I thought that echo was not charging ecn fees either????
    #43     Jan 4, 2002
  4. No ECN fees, no tickets, 1 cent or less, $200Mo (and that can be rebated).

    The VTS system that others use is fine, but very few actually use all the cool new stuff that is on the newer Redi platforms. With the merger of ARCA and REDI, we have made a major jump into better connectivity and overal ease of use.

    One major consideration (the most important, if you note the last few years), is that your new firm be financially solid. Regardless of which firm you go with, get a copy of the balance sheet, and make sure that the owners have a big chunk of cash involved. Since Echo was started by ex-Bright traders, they have a similar business model, other than that. Location is also important.

    (commercial over, back to your regular programming)
    #44     Jan 4, 2002
  5. I am compelled to chime in because I trade at Echo.

    One of the great benefits to trading at Echo is that they offer a multitude of different trading platforms to choose from. I am one of the many that also believe that Redi Plus stinks for professional traders. I like the fact that at Echo I am not limited to one platform, I can try different ones and find the one that fits my trading the best.

    I used to use First Alert for trading with them. Not just for quotes, like at Bright, I used to actually submit orders on it. If anyone out there has a First Alert station, you can click on Open, then Order Entry, or Pending Window, or Order Log, all the options that do not work anywhere else I used to use here to trade on. Because Echo had worked with the First Alert programmers to design the order entry capabilities, as they have done with many platforms, is why the firm had the capabilities. Granted, I don't really like First Alert either and I quit using it almost a year ago, but I thought it was pretty cool that Echo had worked with First Alert to design the order entry windows just to give the traders more options of what to use. Before any current First Alert users get too excited about using it at Echo anymore, I think Echo is winding down their relationship with First Alert, they do not promote it much anymore.

    So then I used ECHOtrader, their version of VTS, they have a licensing agreement that allows them to completely run the software on their own lines and servers. Everyone knows that the charts are not as appealing as Realtick's (which Echo also offered as a platform a few years ago), but other than that runs very well and is extremely fast in both quote speed and executions.

    I actually switched over to another platform of theirs a few months ago, I am trading on Sterling now (guys at Echo will all know what it is). I use it exclusively now, I run AT financial also for charts, and Sterling looks almost like it was designed by the people at AT. If it wasn't, it almost appears like some copyright laws might be infringed upon because when running next to AT it almost looks like it is an add-on package for AT.

    Some of the big advantages to Echo that I like:

    I have faxed in lists of changes of things that I wanted to see happen in the software, and they implemented a lot of them. And very quickly too, that impresses me. They are always looking for trader input for future software releases.

    For all their software, they have connections to the ECN's and to the NYSE that are not shared with other firms, they control their software and servers. The difference is a product like Redi where Bright is just one of many many firms that are all sending orders on the same connections to the exchanges and competing for bandwidth, my Nasdaq orders get filled in the same second as I place it. To the naked eye it appears instantaneous.

    They are very responsive. If you trade there and are having a tough time, they actually contact you and give you free pointers, not trying to sell you a $1000 class. They do offer a seminar, but as everyone I know who trades at Echo can attest, they are amazingly helpful all the time with trading ideas and strategies without looking for anything in return.

    I asked the Echo guys about their Bright connections, they said that a few of the partners used to be at Bright many years ago, but many of them came from other firms as well, so I don't know if I would classify the firm as ex-Bright.

    All in all, I like the guys at Echo because they truly seem interested in their traders' success, most other firms I talked to seem to care about the firm making money above all else.

    Just my two-cents,

    -Jim Reynolds

    PS - I also like the fact that Echo hasn't had their people log on and turn these boards into a free advertisement by posting 471 postive posts about their firm in 3 months, they are letting their reputation speak for itself. To me, that says more than 471 posts ever could.
    #45     Jan 4, 2002
  6. PS - I also like the fact that Echo hasn't had their people log on and turn these
    boards into a free advertisement by posting 471 postive posts about their firm in
    3 months, they are letting their reputation speak for itself. To me, that says
    more than 471 posts ever could.

    The above posted by JimR...

    The reason I started posting on this board was to respond to the outright lies and fabrications that were being posted by a few desperate people from other firms.

    Since then, we have spoken with Jeff DeWitt (president of Echo, who called us), and ex-Bright Trader and we put an end to the lies and mis-information. My hat is off to Jeff for being a stand up guy and calling off the nonsense from their end.

    Since joining the board my personal emails from elite members outnumbers all my other emails from traders everywhere...and I enjoy sharing on the board.

    As far a Redi goes, I suggest that you read Gene Weismans's posts, as he eloquently outlines all the benefits from Redi for those who qualify to use the system. With Goldman Sachs, Spear Leeds, and Archipelago combining forces, it hardly makes sense to think that this system is not the best available platform and ECN.

    Everyone has had differing experiences with different platforms, but since the platforms used are such a small part of actual trading performance, to agrgue about them is kind of silly.

    Good Trading everyone!!
    #46     Jan 4, 2002
  7. Speculator1929

    Speculator1929 Guest

    Don, are you implying that because Goldman does it, it has to be the best? I use redi, but I do not delude myself into thinking it is the best platform out there. It suits my needs, as I trade intraday direction not trading for speed to race the nearest MM, specialist or spread trader to the last penny. There are many other platforms out there that meet the needs of those using them just fine. Jim's point about dealing with a smaller outfit that can make changes quickly rather than one that has to consider the implications that making a change has on all the other firms it (SLK) clears and their institutional customers is well taken. SLK will eventually make some changes. Timely, no.

    Second, while Jim had his own Echo commercial he complained about your 400+ posts in three months. You explained that as a function of defending yourself against fabrications. Then you said that Echo had stopped that. I ask then, why the need to continuously post. I believe that you have the right to post away. I will defend the Constitution with my blood.

    However, I think that the fact that your from sponsors the section is a conflict of interest. I question the impartiality. Of course, you would not sponsor a forum that was fostering lies and misstatements, but your sponsorship and active presence on the boards [could] intimidate honest criticism. By responding to virtually every post and certainly every negative post about Bright you dissuade open discussion. Granted, the very nature of anonymous discussion is a breeding ground for negativity and disgruntled blather, but couldn't some of it be true or at least healthy to discussion?

    Just because someone says something negative doesn't mean that they have a negative bias, it could just be the facts. One of the things I respect [ed] about Bright and I hope it is still true, is that while the firm promotes verbal continuous discussion on its trading desks (one firm I traded for discouraged ANY discussion?!), you try (even mandate) that it be factual not opinion. That is, comments like "the spu's are running" is encouraged because it helps the entire room, but comments like "these oil companies have to fade this afternoon -- I am short them" are discouraged for their lack of validity in fact (which in trading is the tape).

    So, won't ultimately the facts speak for themselves and you (Jim and Don) shouldn't need to try to defend them or alter the perception of them here?
    #47     Jan 5, 2002
  8. ericdh


    Thanks to Cashonly, JimR and Don for the information, your input is appreciated (although the post script to TraderJims comments seemed unproductive).

    Speculator1929, despite the length of your post I was unable to find any relevance.

    Best wishes to all for 2002.

    #48     Jan 5, 2002
  9. Bryan Roberts

    Bryan Roberts Guest


    if you have a problem with Traderjimr's comments then take it up with him and maybe even address his statement. what you did was criticize echo's traders and referred to them as desperate liars. you also implied that these lies and fabrications stopped after you spoke with Echo's partners. I can't help but get very angry by your statements and ask you to please refrain from doing so in the future. My initial response was to write "the only time i was a desperate trader was when i was a 'bright' trader!" but these types of post benefit no one.
    #49     Jan 5, 2002
  10. vikana

    vikana Moderator

    I guess I'm a bit mystified by this pissing contest. We all know that Don Bright is a promoter of his company. Bright even sponsors EliteTrader.

    I have no issue with Don having a Bright "perspective" on his company and his competition. If he wasn't convinced that he was promoting the best deal in the business, why would anyone ever join him?

    If Echo traders don't feel that they are accurately represented, I suggest that Echo step up to the plate, sponsor Elite and assign someone who can speak for the company to answer and inform.

    I'm not affiliated with Bright, Echo or any other pro firm. I have to say, however, that I respect Don for taking all the criticism and mostly staying "on message".
    #50     Jan 5, 2002