Chicago futures prop that require some to no experience

Discussion in 'Prop Firms' started by coolwind, May 6, 2010.

  1. coolwind


    Since so many prop firms have changed thier hiring practices. Does anyone know of any Chicago area Prop firms that still hire newbies or traders with little experience?

    Any help is appreciated.

    Thank you
  2. bone

    bone ET Sponsor

    Here's a link for a relatively current list, but since I know most of these firms I can report to you that their business models have changed dramatically:

    Essentially, they have thrown out many of their existing traders (the recent grads who were recruited and who they were trying to develop) and kept only the 'earners'. The model is now for a combination of experienced producers and automated trading groups. I have managed to assist a few of my clients who trained under me, did OK with their own modest personal accounts, and then wanted to interview for prop positions.

    In terms of getting prop backing, you have to have a strategy, and the strategy has to make sense to them. Even if you went to a community college - if you have a strategy that the prop firm knows from experience makes money, then that is bigger than the Ivy League for them. Manageable risk, consistent income, max drawdowns no greater than max winning days.

    Chicago is no longer recruiting grads from better schools and paying them for twelve months to learn how to trade. They also had to water down their internal training so much that it rendered it marginally useful. Some firms were teaching only one methodology, and consequently on days when that strategy failed the entire firm got whacked. Alternatively, I know of three firms who hired psychologists - and that had mixed results from firm to firm.
  3. I think there is a lot of desperation right now for everyone. its really tough. Even HFT seems like last years trade. It doesnt work well without a lot of other participants
  4. bone

    bone ET Sponsor

    Yep - lots of universal aingst. I've just taken on some work for a high frequency stat arb fund in NYC... it seems that the entry signals are much easier than the exit signals, and that's where the tradecraft comes in, which of course keeps me in business.

    Again, no matter what career path you take in the business, have a strategy going into the interview that resonates with the employer/backer. Elliot Waves or even the shake algorithm might ring hollow, but something more like an explainable arbitrage will definitely get their attention.
  5. rosy2


    i agree with bone. you have to have a strategy that makes sense. I would add that if the strategy makes sense then live results might not be required. The thing is most people have no strategy.
  6. All these HFTs and black box firms dont know what to do because they dont understand what the market even exists for. Its supposed to be for allocating resources. Right now because the gov has messed the whole world up no one knows what the fundamentals are. Trying to articulate a strategy or build a strategy with the amount of confusion going on is impossible.

    Cant get something from nothing.

    Im really curious how renaissance tech is doing this year. Does reduced particpation help or hurt them?
  7. bone

    bone ET Sponsor

    I'll put it to you this way: a successful stat arb trade requires a statistically fit spread combination with incredibly tight mean reversion. Uh,................... that's pretty tough to find these days.
  8. coolwind


    Hey guys thanks for the responses! I do have a definite strategy in mind and it has from some simulated testing, produced good results. I'm working on modifying it and producing systems and methodologies that should have a good success overall when winning.

    I didn't have a degree, but I'm smart enough and am currently working on myself, so that I don't get in my own way anymore.

    I want to work for the chance to trade. Not looking to be paid. And willing to put in the time to learn the craft.

    I've looked around and seen whats on the forum, but most of the employers are seeking college grads or being real stringent with requirements, wording their posts so as to weed out the "traveling" traders. I'm not one of them, but it has hindered me as i have applied before and there's been no responses.

    Prop trading to me was the most convenient route as it gave the support system to help in learning. And also the real monetary backing that's required to begin trading. As I think most know, the real amount required to just learn to trade is equivalent to purchasing a house!

    Thanks for your help BONE! I'll remember the suggestions you gave me!

    Once again thanks to all for your responses!
  9. "Chicago" is recruiting.....

    I agree with a fair amount of what u wrote Bone, but def a few sweeping generalizations.

  10. bone:

    Do you mean they are now hiring people who can develop trading system to trade rather than training people to trade?

    Do they trade with multiply systems at the same time?
    #10     May 9, 2010