Charles KHitman Ponzi

Discussion in 'Prop Firms' started by voltrader, Jan 26, 2002.

  1. Hitman, didn't want to change the topic from your January Trading journals...but wanted to question your post which I've attached here.


    Hitmans post
    The lone spark after the close was when I have finally inked my name on that contract.

    Within a couple of weeks I will get full control of everything from commission rates to share limits, I will probably come up with clearly defined rules such as "if you trade this much volume you will get this commission rate" (I will look over Don's commission schedule and make sure I beat it) and "a new trader starting with no capital, paying $3 a ticket, will get an automatic reduction in ticket charge after his first net positive week", etc . . .

    I have a lot of ideas for the team I run, but my focus would be to keep everything under clearly defined rules so everyone know exactly what they need to do to get what they want. I want to keep personal favors, hidden agendas, special case scenarios to a minimum.

    My business card will now say "Managing Director". Let's just say until my team starts to perform better (actually, this week so farhas been solid for everyone except myself), and I actually see
    some black ink on my P&L for 2002, the title is a joke, for now.

    When I have 30-40 traders under my control like some of the bigger names at my firm do, I can probably tell people I am a managing director, until then I have a lot of catch-up to do, and while the card may be useful to impress someone in a club, those that know me well probably understand why it will never be used in such a fashion.

    When the firm makes an announcement of a new "managing director" we are allowed to put up one quote of our choice, back then when I was red hot I thought about all kind of quotes, but now the one I came with was "The firm will have my 100% effort". It may sound corny, but given my current state of performance, that's the best I can do, and success or failure, do or die, millionaire or hot dog vendor, the firm and those that work with me for that matter will get nothing less, hence it was the most proper message to send for the time being.

    That said, over the last a few weeks, the actual signing had always been something that carried some weights in my heart, as until my name was on the contract there was still uncertainty in what was undoubtly one of my biggest decisions.

    With hopefully some sort of reduced rate coming my way (very useful if I am taking so many shots, sure helps reducing the damage), and the new announcement, will this be the added pressure that break my spirit, or the much needed morale boost that will get me out of this slump?

    Final stretch of the month will tell the full story.

    Don't wish to pour water over your bonfire....but as you are still learning to trade profitably yourself don't you think that you should concentrate on that rather than on recruiting a trading team.
    As a leader of a trading team you should inspire your workers, and "lead the way". Are you going lead the team with open disclosure of your trades? Don't you think they may be put off in the fact that their MD Guru is hardly bringing in the cream.
    What a sham if the trading leader is just Nick Leeson in disguise.

    Getting the MD title is not just a joke, it make me question the whole integrity of the company.

    These things only look good in Egypt.
  2. Those were my very thoughts,if his firm is dishing out deals and titles like that to a rookie than it really says something about the quality of management and traders at his firm.I don't know what other prop. firms use to qualify a trader for Hitman's new position but I would think you would need more success and time under your belt.Maybe after three years of trading would be a better qualifier,I question a firm that allows an employee or associate to post the material Hitman spews out.It looks like to me either management of his firm doesn't know what he is doing or they don't have a company policy in place to discourage or forbid posting to public message boards.I have to admit I learned a few things about his firm but I not sure this is the correct forum .Like I stated you have to question the firms management qualities and policies when they take a relatively rookie trader and give him so much responsibility.
  3. I will tell you how I learnt to swim when I was a kid... my teacher, on a daily basis, gradually deflated my inflatable armband, until there was an insignificant amount of air in it... the act of wearing the deflated armband provided the psychological confidence to swim, even though a deflated armband served no practical purpose... but the confidence gained from wearing the armband (even a deflated one) is what eventually led to me being a great freestyle swimmer a few years down the line.
  4. I have often wondered about the "team" concept myself. I know that our better traders would not have the time to hold the hands of newer people, and I feel that by training people to trade on their own is much better than making them join a team concept.

    Will your 'team' get the benefit of the better pricing that you are negotiating for yourself?? Since low costs are primary to success, wouldn't it be better to share your savings with your team? (This is not intended as a loaded question, see my comments below about our group pricing).

    Your new title sounds great, and I really hope that you help grow the industry by encouraging new traders from the outside.

    Perhaps you could shed some more light on the "team" concept as it applies to WorldCo....I may be missing something. We have trading groups who bring in new traders, share in the overall price savings, and sponsor one another....and that works great.

    Curious as to how your team will work.....good luck on with your new position.!!
  5. tuna


    With respect Candle that situation added confidence,I don't know what extra is involved in his new label but i only see it as adding pressure at a time when its least needed and possibly whats adding to Hitmans not so hot run at the moment.

    My trades fishing and to me its like giving a deckhand/crewman the skippers job when he's still learning the ropes don't work....Why does'nt it work?...Cos the pressure gets them.
    Hitman has hell pressure inside himself to perform x1... pressure to perform with others in his team x2 pressure to perform as team captain x 3

    Whether it be Managing Director/ Skipper or Team Captain on a rugby field or in a office those labels are'nt just for "look cool" business cards ...the job comes with added responsibilities which unless you know what your doing inside and out can add pressure.
    Hitman wish you the best ...hope you make it... but i think you just added pressure to yourself that you probably don't need right now.
    I agree with the first 2 posts....the firm should'nt have offered it in the first place....Is an ambitious guy going to turn it down tho??... No

  6. on the other hand..

    if i remember correctly the firm made the position available to hitman because he talked some traders (stockk and his friends) into leaving their current firm and joining worldco.. so, hitman was in effect doing the work of a recruiter, why should he not be compensated for that?.. plus, its really just a sacrifice play on the part of the firm.. the management knows that if hitman doesnt perform, his recruits will leave him and migrate to other teams within the firm.. so they stand to blow out one trader by giving too much responsibility too soon, but by taking the risk they have already gained more traders to make up for the one they might lose.. id say thats a pretty damn good risk/reward ratio..

    but i agree that this will add pressure.. especially since the traders that will be attracted to join hitmans team are going to be new or still going through their learning curve.. but i think he can handle it.. leadership is something you cant get from a textbook, its learned from experience.. its not bestowed by management in the form of a title.. true leadership is always taken.. and i think hitman has demonstrated an ability to take the lead.. in time he will learn what to do with it now that he has it..

  7. Well as shortseller myself at this point if Hitman was a stock he would be on my lists of shorts. I belive the only reason hitman was made leader of his team is for one reason and one reason only. The reason is this board. By posting messages on this board particularly his journals he enticed people who were either making no or very little money trading. Last year he reported numbers for everyone to see and basically was saying hey if a college dropout can make $60,000 in a year trading so can you. Those who were marginal traders at best and some newbies probably took this bait hook line and sinker. Of course he also enticed them with low commission structure and free bagels and pastries in the morning. Therefore and it's only my belief when you have people calling Hitman and saying ooh ooh I want to trade with you what is management going to do. They are going to encourage this type of advertisement and have him try to do more of it. It does not mean beans whether he knows what the heck he's doing as long as he can recruit people through these boards or where ever. It's a numbers game. If he recruits 10 people and one or two makes money then he will benefit. For Worldco it really doesn't matter if any of them are making money as long as they can generate commissions.
    Is this wrong maybe but quite frankly I don't think what Hitman is doing is any different than what other recruiters or others who come on this board trying to hawk thei products. I do have to give Hitman a little credit because at least he goes into detail about what he is doing and why he is doing it. I do believe he has a lot to learn about trading and more importantly managing people. I believe it takes a certain level of maturity to mange people successfully and he is severely lacking in this area.
  8. dozu888


    the MD title is just part of the Wall Street naming convention... entry level staff all have some kinda VP title.
  9. tom_p


    I would love to personally accomodate your desire for shorting Hitman (by taking the other side of the trade), but alas the mechanism is not yet in place to do so. Perhaps someone can come up with suggestions on how to set up a legal and equitable method of transforming Hitman's equity curve into a stock or option for the benefit of EliteTrader members, enabling them to put their money where their mouth is. I would be prepared to entrust my money with a public and unbiassed figure like Gene Weissman or Don Bright who would provide escrow services in exchange for a small percentage which would go towards advertising space on EliteTrader. def and The Knight would be able to assist with options chain quotes should that be the way we go. Last, but not least, we would need some very well thought out rules and restrictions which would prevent possible manipulation or fraud eg. preventing Hitman (or Worldco) from taking on a huge short position and then intentionally blowing himself out, yet not totally cutting off Hitman's (or Worldco's) desire for some genuine hedging.
  10. About hitmans profitably I have spoken to a few big firms over the last fer weeks the typical story is most of there profitable traders cant make anything in this market and that includes traders who were making 7 figs a year. Second of all Worldco is one of the few firms that take traders with little or no money. Everyone else wants 25k and if you burn through get out or bring more money. The groups at Worldco are led by some of the best traders on Wall st some of the traders make 6 figures on a good day. That is better then most other firms and if you start loosing they just cut your buying power. They don't lay you off or ask for more money. The thing about Worldco is there management are real investors and belive in the people they hire.
    #10     Jan 26, 2002