This is exactly what I'm trying to figure out......untamed discipline, the battle within, or whatever you call it....it's the key that'll take me to the next level. for traders who've gone through this step, can you share what it takes?
I am not sure who wrote this, but sincere thanks to the author. Regards, Suri The Drive to Succeed Few traders become consistently profitable. Some may achieve early success, but it is often short-lived. Others may hit upon a winning streak, but eventually the streak ends. It is a hard fact to admit, but long-term success eludes many traders. It is the rare trader who has a strong drive to succeed who makes it in the end. There are common traits of people who succeed, and it is vital for survival as a trader that you make sure you possess these characteristics. By acting like a success driven trader, you'll put yourself on the path to success. Make sure you possess the characteristics of the success driven trader. What characteristics do success driven traders possess? They persist until they reach an objective. They are not easily discouraged. They push themselves to the limits and build up their skills until they achieve high levels of mastery. And in the process, they develop rock-solid confidence. They do all of this as rapidly and as independently as possible, but they are also extremely organized and focused. When it comes to completing tasks, for example, they tend to pass quickly over easy tasks to complete more difficult ones. They set priorities and devote the bulk of their efforts to the tasks that really matter, while ignoring tasks that may have relatively little impact. They carefully monitor their performance and seek out feedback that is specific and concrete. They would rather have honest, accurate feedback that addresses their shortcomings in scrupulous detail than sugarcoated fluff that merely makes them feel good temporarily. They aren't afraid to face their shortcomings head on. They work independently, and focus on their own internal standards. They are not concerned with the performance of others. Although they are extremely competitive, they don't compare themselves to others. In the end, they are not consumed with doing better than others, but enjoy the process of trading. They look inward rather than outward when determining how well they are doing. If you want to achieve long-term success as a trader, it is essential to cultivate the mindset of a success driven trader. Work tirelessly to achieve your goals, but also be organized and spend your time wisely. For example, don't waste your time debilitating about which one of many equally potential profitable opportunities to take. Pick one and devote the rest of your time and energy to outlining a detailed trading plan. Map out strategies for entering, exiting, and controlling your risk. Once your plan is outlined, execute if effortlessly. Don't be afraid to face your limitations. Work around them, and approach them with a realistic sense of optimism: If you work hard enough and put your effort in the right places, you'll be a profitable trader. Through repeated practice, you'll eventually build the skills you need to master the markets and achieve long-term, lasting success.
IMO, the number one trait that makes a good trader a great trader is the ability to let go of a mental attachment to money. It is very hard to do, and takes time. You have to be able to make rational, almost mechanical decisions based on what is the right way to execute your plan. Proper risk control relative to your account size is part of that plan, but you have to be able to think without letting where your p/l is affect you. Everyone will have a dollar level, good and bad, for a trade or for the day, that is going to set them over the edge where they start to make poor decisions. It might be 50 dollars, it might be 50,000, but it's a curve that you try to work your way up as you grow your account. Many traders can achieve a certain level of success where they seem to hit a wall and either plateau or fall back and start the climb over again. Another way to think about it is the range of what constitutes 'noise' for your p/l. When you're within that range, you really don't care. You'd call it an unmemorable or wasted day. Great traders have the ability to continually expand that range and not let the increasing dollar amounts affect their decision making.
QUOTE]Quote from EricP: The successful trader realizes that their 'j*b' is to make decisions that put the odds in their favor, and then react to the what the market is telling them. Emotions (such as anger, fits of profanity, screams of joy, etc) are not in the toolbag of most successful traders. Instead, cool, composed logic and sounds decisions are key. The most successful trader in the usa is a manual trader who throws shit,curses like crazy and knocks down $1 mil a week. in the 90's he made $1 mil many DAYS. he's never heard of et but many on this board know who he is.i won't disclose his name as he's a very humble person who's helped 100's of people
Great thread. in my point of view, it's very important for traders to "Love to trade" and "determine your success as a trader." and, Successful traders are open-minded and believe what they can prove to themselves.
what about Discipline? I am far from a vet in the market or here on ET (so take whatever I say with a grain of salt), but I think being disciplined about your trading approach and money management are very important factors in trading. p.s this thread is LEGIT!
Excellent thread, thanks EricP. For me, the operative word (especially now) is HUMBLE. When I first switched from swing trading equities to daytrading futures I had what some would call beginners luck. I had just discovered market profile and learned to look at the market differently. I thought, "wow, this is easy". My first 3-4 weeks were amazing. I was catching 10-12 point moves in ES (in 2006 those were good moves) everyday. But my head swelled as I began fantasizing about my future wealth...my account dwindled and I kept at breakeven for a while, then finally blew-out....twice. I did a lot of work on myself (meditation, utilizing techniques from sports psychology, etc) and started to to get consistent. Fast forward to Oct. 2008. Oct. 1st was one of my best days ever. I went to bed that night thinking I'll probably give some (or all) back the next day. Instead, the unexpected happened, I had another great day, not quite as large, but much larger then avg. for me. All through Oct. and Nov. I traded my best ever (daytrading ES, made about 700% on a small 5 figure account) . I had only 2 losing days for those two months, a few near flat days, and lots of big days back to back. I conciously told myself to not let it get to my head this time and tried to keep myself even keeled. I didn't tell anyone how well I was I doing (I trade from home) , except for my wife. When friends or family would ask I'd say, "I'm doing well", and nothing more then that. I wanted to be low key about it and not inflate my ego. The Wed. before Thanksgiving I did not trade. Instead, I printed out a copy of my account statement and showed my wife. She was excited but recognized my desire to maintain perspective, so we didn't talk about it too much. We were invited to a thanksgiving dinner by a relatively new friend. At the dinner, there many very interesting, highly intelligent people present that I met for the first time, a very high level NASA engineer (now retired), a few physicians, a couple of high powered attys, a former economist turned TV producer, and two very successful entrepreneurs, etc. No traders and no one in finance. After it became known that I was a trader, I tried to be low key about my recent success, but eventually my ego got the better of me....perhaps I was trying to socially establish myself among this group of highly successful people. Of course people asked me for tips, and for predictions and I uttered my usual, "tips are for suckers" line and told them about the dangers of predicting when your just a daytrader. At first I thought I was doing pretty well, maintaining my HUMBLEness....but the ego is insidious and I found myself getting all puffed up and thinking how great I was. Monday morning after Thanksgiving....my single biggest losing day......ever. That first week after thanksgiving was my first red week in along time. Then this week was red as well. My futures account is still much larger then it was before Oct., but it has a huge dent in it , thanks to me not being humble. I've been working on HUMBLEness for the past two weeks...and now recognize that it will be a lifelong endeavor. Great thread.
This thread already shows why most cannot turn trading into success; success is becoming wealthy, becoming rich. A successful trader might simply be some or those that are stumbling along 'trading for living', so called. Change the wording to the characteristics of achieving success in trading, of making your fortune, of making yourself rich. Here is the difference. You are now 2 things primarily. 1. You have the aim of accumulating wealth (and not embarking upon a treadmill of making and spending money, so-called 'trading for a living'.) 2. You are a problem solver. You must solve this problem: to use the market as a conduit and cornucopia of money flowing into your pocket. You do this through devising a methodology to exploit the days gyrations (ie ES, YM, CL), open to close, buying the upmoves and selling the downmoves, sequentially, as they follow each other.
so true about being HUMBLE, as pride comes before fall... thank you for this great thread....what a read!
Excellent post, Lescor. That is certainly part of 'growing' as a successful trader. I call it becoming 'acclimated to greater risk', and it's a critical (and natural) part of a traders path to increased profits. We can almost all remember when a $100 loss may have seemed almost devastating to our mental state. Losing that much cash, and so quickly! Now, I know many traders that can lose $10-20k+ without flinching or impacting their trading decisions in the least. As you said, if the P&L movements don't feel like simple 'noise' then your trading decisions might be adversely impacted. One good way for a growing trader to manage this process is to increase trading size slowly. Suppose that the guy is a stock trader, and trades 500 share lots of a specific stock. There is no need to 'jump' up to trading 1000 share lots. Simply trade 600 or 700 share lots for a while until that feels comfortable. Then, maybe got to 800 or 900 shares per trade. Take small steps, so you can remain within your comfort zone. Of course, this also means you should never, IMO, take 'massive' positions beyond your normal trade size as a 'revenge trade' to get back even. Your odds of making proper decisions with that kind of trade, will be substantial reduced, and you'll simply be rolling the dice, hoping to get lucky, and not trading properly.