EricP, How much did you make this year? My net trading profit is... > USD$152M. If monetary performance means anything to you then I'm going to tell you that: "Skills are the foundation of trading." I had wait until the end of the year to post this to be sure I'm giving the correct figures. Trading focused on psychology has a limit of what can be achieved which is based on what you "choose to the believe what the market is". But anything can happen in the market, meaning there is no limit towards the skills you can gain from trading the market. If the monetary figure means anything to people, then I would suggest abandoning what you choose to believe. Take an unbiased look at what the market is actually doing, rather than what you believe and choose to believe. TEST EVERYTHING. YOU CAN ONLY MAKE MONEY BASED ON WHAT THE MARKET OFFERS THAT YOU CAN SEE. THEN TAKE OUT WHAT YOU SEE AND YOU MAKE MONEY BASED ON WHAT THE MARKET DOES.
A while back I thought there was a specific personality or character trait associated with trading professionally. At this point in my career I believe that this line of thought is misleading at best, egotistical at worst. The reason I call it egotistical is that traders like EricP (and myself for that matter), at a basic level, strive to be accepted. Our monetary desires drive us because society respects money, the ability to make it and so forth. There is nothing magical in the process of trading, it is a job. To perform at your job you have either passed the school of hard knocks or you did not. The "character" traits as you call them Eric, are nothing more than simple "I want it" combined with "I'm going to do whatever it takes". Some people are more motivated than others. It doesn't matter if you're humble... seriously, humility is a weakness (this is coming from a very shy person - I hardly ever leave my residence). You know what humility breeds? : the inability to sell yourself and allow yourself the acclaim you deserve. That's why you started this thread Eric - you're looking for acclaim and its easier to do it via a semi-anonymous message board than via real life... I'm not saying this is wrong (hell, I'm here and I run a small fund), its just how we deal with success - and - its got nothing to with sucessful trading at all. Its got a lot to do with your self esteem. When I think back about whats been written in this thread;I think of the 99/100 followers who are looking for some sort of answer. There is no answer... you have to do the work, struggle and then you may or may not succeed. Just like anything else in life. Specific character traits for successful trading are all BS. Eric, the reason you know traders who are successful and share a certain set of common character traits with you, is because they are your friends and you are a reflection of who you know. That's my 2 cents. Also, I've been drinking tonight and I got annoyed at this topic. My wife said I should tell it how it is so feel free to criticize. Mike
It is simple mike, it's confidence vs cockiness. Confidence is self assurance, cockiness is the desire to share that self assurance with others in a way that promotes.
I agree with your assessment that Eric's "sample" is biased because he hangs out with people who have similar personalities. However, I know Eric personally and IMO his motivation is not what you say. I think he's a genuine guy who felt like giving something back. I don't think he needed any acclaim from this board. Quite the opposite, I think he's done a good job of surrounding himself with successful traders who provide the acceptance you describe. I'd go so far as to give him credit for recognizing this need and building this group of traders. Eric laid out a set of characteristics he felt was common in successful traders. Even if you don't agree they are necessary, would you agree that having them improves your chances of success?
Being around the right people is tremendous. And giving to the community is just awesome. Some people had poor upbringing, look at Eli Manning and Plaxico Burress or Michael Vick and Jerry Rice. I am sure you will have two in one group and two in the other. All successful at one time I have noticed over the years attributes from fellow traders. I am sure others have also been observant as well, it is very interesting.
That's how you end up investing with LTCM, Ospraie, and Madoff types. There are many, many strategies that will make money for years, then blow up in a month or two. After Taleb's books and 2008's performance, I'm surprised there are still people out there who think it's as easy as finding someone who "makes money".
Mike, Your wife was right, you should tell it like it is (in a civilized manner, of course), and I personally welcome your thoughts/comments. While I agree with much of what you have said, I'll comment on some of the areas where I disagree. Probably the best way to sum up my thoughts are with a new common trait from the successful traders I know. I was tempted to add this some time ago, but couldn't find a time in the thread when it seemed appropriate to add. Successful independent traders (IMO) <i>don't feel the need to prove anything to anyone</i>. The ones I know don't care if anyone believes that they are successful traders. They don't care if their neighbors or family realize the extent of their success. They certainly don't care if others on an anonymous message board believe they are successful in their trading. Independent traders that do care about such things, are more likely to be wannabe or deveoping traders. Seriously, for a trader that is truly successful, why do they need or want the attention drawn to their success? Granted, if they are managing OPM (such as yourself), then the publicity generates added investors and can be worthwhile. But, for an independent trader, the added publicity brings nothing positive, and therefore, most such traders would rather remain low-key and downplay their successes. "<i>You know what humility breeds? : the inability to sell yourself and allow yourself the acclaim you deserve."</i> => The (independent) traders I know don't need to sell themselves, as they have nothing to 'sell'. Also, they have sufficient self satisfaction, that they don't want or need the acclaim of others. Getting back to my main point, about not needing to prove anything to anyone. I think another example is that you'll rarely see truly successful traders engaging in immature arguments or 'flame wars', as it serves no purpose. They typically just prefer to drop the developing argument, realizing that they have no need to prove themselves (which is also why I've added three people to my ignore list from this thread => engaging in an argument would just push the thread even further off track).
Eric p and the rest of his gang want attention. If not they'd not be on et showing there blotters and drawing attention to themselves. They want to be respected and admired. There's nothing wrong with that but those are the facts. I was in the same room in the late 90's with the great broadway traders sperling,millman,shaw and the rest and they really didn't want attention. Many are still around making far more money than anyone on the et board.
Thank you for your wonderful thread Eric P. Many traders have come here and shared their insight(s) on trading, and for their current level and where they are in life, all are correct in what they say, despite their differences. I have found the posts stressing (no pun intended) emtional control as the key to maintaining stability and progressing in your development as a trader to be of particular value. It is very difficult to figure-out the mechanics of a successful strategy, and even more so implementing it day-in and day-out in a consistent fashion, it requires a military like discipline. <strike>Everyone</strike> most people want to be recognized (on some level) for their achievements in life, especially when doing something that over 80% of people cannot do successfully. Your thread stands-out as a testament to those who can. Sorry your great thread got disrespected, but that was dealt with in its own way as well. Good trading.