Censorship by this site .. arrogance from some subscribers ..

Discussion in 'Prop Firms' started by tctrader, Apr 24, 2002.

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  1. tctrader

    tctrader Guest

    Last week I posted an alert both on the Blackwood forum and this forum telling people of their demise and of unethical behavior by management. This was backed up by other posts both prior to and subsequent to mine. My multiple information sources are inside and impeccable.

    My intention was to inform, not to pointlessly slander. Indeed, I got a number of private messages requesting further info from grateful subscribers who were unaware of what had happened. I posted contact information at Blackwood to help anyone who needed to get in touch with them.

    In response to some whiny, self-important posts from completely uninformed subscribers questioning my motives, the posts were removed from the Blackwood forum.

    To the cowardly censors of this site, I say .. I hope you are happy. The bad guys win out and maybe somebody who has been defrauded by these people and is as yet unaware of it might lose out. Good job.

    I have no further interest in this site, which panders to arrogance like that exhibited by Mr. Weissman and acts against the interests of its' subscribers.

    This post will probably be deleted soon anyhow.

  2. ktm


    You should know better than to speak poorly of prop firms around here...facts or not.
  3. tctrader,

    Your post:

    Blackwood details for anyone unlucky enough to need them
    Their general number is 212 847 4000

    Manager is Craig Schlifstein 212 847 4002 craig@blackwoodtrading.com

    FinOp James Wong 212 847 4007

    Clearer is Penson

    NASD District 10 may have details .. One Liberty Plaza New York, NY 10006 (212) 858-4000 Fax: (212) 858-4189 Cathleen Shine, Sr. V.P., Director

    Good luck, I think you'll need it ..

    My Post:

    Just a note. I don't think it's fair to start rumors a firm is closed
    or say they are closing, unless they are in fact closed . Blackwoods website is still up and I heard their software was pretty good. I don't comment on any firm, since I am a partner in
    a firm. I just want everyone to be fair, since any false rumors can really hurt a business.

    Gene Weissman
    Lieber & Weissman Sec., L.L.C.

    Your response:

    04-22-02 08:05 AM
    Call them and ask
    212 847 4000

    I never said your posts should be removed and I welcome any positive or negative posts on firms. Legally & ethically I try to be balanced in my posts . Do you have Blackwoods
    Focus reports or know for a fact that they are closing ? The tone of your posts were that they were out of business or going out of business , when they were in fact in business at the time .I hear many rumors myself and I know alot more than the average
    trader about firms . I do not post every rumor I hear or every peace of gossip about a firm or firms , since this is not an ethical thing to do in a public forum and you can hurt a firms reputation for no reason at all. Being a partner in a business , I am very careful about what I say in a public forum I don't think that you did anything unethical, but I wanted to point out to the readers
    of the thread that the firm was still in business at the time of the
    posts and I saw no news that they were closed. I was not directing the comment at you so much as others reading &
    & posting on this topic. I have no affilation with Blackwood or any other firm that posts on Elite Trader . Blackwoods website is
    still up today and they are still in business as far as I know. Will
    Blackwood go out of business in the near future? I don't think you are anyone else will know that unless they in fact close their doors, disconnect their phone lines and close their website.

    Gene Weissman
    Lieber & Weissman Sec., L.L.C.
  4. Let's take a second and attempt to throw some logic in here.

    Gene runs a reputable firm, and would probably get some additional business if a competitor firm were to leave some traders stranded. He chose to make a point about not posting "rumors" - and to be sure of the facts. This, in my mind, shows some class. We, as prop firms, take our share of "bashing" at times, and wish that all involved would be sure of the facts before posting.

    I am glad to see someone post relevant data about BW or any other firm, that will help traders involved. This is a good thing. I just think we all want the info to be authenticated.

    I thank you for posting accurate information, and I wish all the others (with agendas) would stick to the facts.

  5. Baron

    Baron ET Founder

    When you say "removed from the Blackwood forum", I'm assuming you are referring to specific ratings that were removed from the Blackwood ratings page in the brokers section of the site. In fact, you must be referring to those because nothing was deleted in the discussion forums regarding Blackwood.

    Now, since you decided to come on the boards and be accusatory with absolutely no facts whatsoever, let me clue you in on a couple of very important facts.

    First of all, when we see multiple ratings entered for a firm within the span of a few hours, we get very suspicious, especially when those ratings are extremely negative.

    Second, those negative ratings on Blackwood came from three users: tctrader, MattGold, and BenWenger. This is very interesting considering that prior to that day when the ratings first appeared, those users were non-existent and therefore had never posted anything whatsoever on the site.

    Third, I did a check on the IP addresses of those users to verify that they were indeed three unique individuals, and guess what? They all came from the same IP address of which just so happens to be the same IP address that you just posted your message above from!

    We delete certain ratings when there's evidence to support that the system is being manipulated by people like yourself. If you think you can come on this site, register a few usernames and start bashing any firm you want, you're in for a surprise.

    Although we want to keep the boards as open as possible, we also want to protect firms from getting bashed unnecessarily by people like yourself who just have an axe to grind for whatever reason.

    So in light of that, let's all be entertained by the rest of your tantrum, I mean post:

  6. Maybe they should be smart enough to use a different IP when they try that ...
  7. I don't want to get involved in this particular issue. I do want to address the concept that Baron is a censor, Baron is a coward, Baron is an SOB because he deletes someone's post. The legal issues concerning defamation over the internet and particularly on message boards are still developing. I don't believe any attorney could responsibly say that a site operator would never be held liable for defamatory material posted on the site, particularly if the operator had information that suggested the post was malicious, ie multiple users from one IP address. Anyone can file a lawsuit, and even a totally meritless case can require a defendant to spend $50, 000 or more to defend it and the inevitable appeal. Welcome to our justice system. I don't think anyone claims Baron is getting rich off this site, so it is unfair to expect him to take any legal risk, just so someone can vent over a broker. The print press will not publish letters that are defamatory either, so this is not some big free speech issue. Let's cut Baron some slack here. From what I can see he is acting responsibly.
  8. Usually such individuals that use multiple alias (user names) to hype or bash from the same IP address are often too emotional to even think that the forum owner (Baron) would not bother (take the time) to check the IP address.

    emotions and stupidity often leads to embarrassment

    Yet, this is typical Yahoo! message board like abusive-behaviour by one very upset individual...regardless if his/hers experience with a service is factual or not.

    Once they cross the line to manipulate the FACTS via their actions on a public forum via posing as numerous individuals...in my opinion...the IP address should be blocked and the user names banned and deleted...

    leaving the posts and Baron's reply as a reminder.

    Maybe there should be an age requirement for access to this forum...such as > 15years old :D

    Nihaba Ashi
  9. The only other explanation could be that three different people at the same location (behind a firewall and NAT) posted. Many corporations only have one public IP address.
    #10     Apr 24, 2002
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