cash bond symbol???

Discussion in 'Index Futures' started by fatfozzy, Aug 13, 2004.

  1. fatfozzy


    can anybody tell me which quote provider has the cash bond symbols on the 10 and 30 year that you can spread against the futures??? Thanks in advance....
  2. TGM


    Icap and Gtis--you can subsribe to them on most major feeds (like cqg). Also Cantor Fitzgerald/espeed.
  3. fatfozzy


    I appreciate the info, I'll check it out. Have you ever traded the spread?
  4. TGM


    No, I am straight away curve trader. I do not trade the basis. It will be interesting to see what the cash looks like when TT adds Icap to it's exchange offerings. Everyone is amazed when they look at the book on something like the bund or the 10 year note on cbot. The cash 10 year on espeed and Icap are completely sick with volume.
  5. I've traded the basis from time to time in the past, but I've never heard of ICAP. What is it?
  6. TGM


    Icap is what it is now called. They are the main competitor to Espeed. They bought Brokertec and are European based.

    I believe it is now called Icap/brokertec. I have only used espeed but know many that use Brokertech and are geering up for the following:

    Here is a news release a while back from TT:

    ICAP's BrokerTec and Trading Technologies to Launch
    an Alternative Execution Marketplace

    Jersey City, N.J. and Chicago, Il., February 11, 2004 – ICAP's BrokerTec, the world's largest electronic interdealer platform in the fixed income markets, and Trading Technologies International, Inc., one of the world's leading providers of trading software for professional derivatives traders, today announced that they will launch an alternative marketplace to execute trades in U.S. Treasury benchmark issues. M arket professionals worldwide will be able to trade U.S. Treasury issues with futures-style execution on ICAP's BrokerTec platform using the Trading Technologies front-end to access this new marketplace. This alternative marketplace is scheduled to launch by the end of 1 st quarter 2004.

    Traditionally, the U.S. Treasury cash and futures marketplaces trade side by side and are, in fact, traded against each other; however, these instruments trade with different trading protocols and rules. Through Trading Technologies' sophisticated front-end, X_TRADER ® , and by exploiting its automated trading capabilities, including X_TRADER's Autospreader and Autotrader, mutual clients will be able to access the BrokerTec marketplace to transact outright cash instruments as well as cash instruments against futures utilizing futures-style execution.

    “This new alternative execution marketplace will thus allow professional traders globally to trade U.S. Treasury futures and cash instruments with identical trading protocols,” stated Hal Hinkle, CEO of ICAP Electronic Broking, a division of ICAP plc. “By introducing the same trading rules for cash as already exist in futures, traders who choose to use the alternative execution method will enjoy greater reliability and efficiency when hedging between cash and futures. We believe that the introduction of this alternative execution protocol for U.S. Treasuries with Trading Technologies will complement the existing futures and wholesale cash markets for U.S. Treasuries. Given Trading Technologies' significant futures market presence, this is a strong alliance between the most widely used futures ISV and a leading electronic treasury trading platform,” commented Mr. Hinkle.

    “Together with BrokerTec, we are bringing futures-style execution to the U.S. Treasuries cash market, which we believe will result in more opportunities for cash traders. We anticipate this will attract greater participation among non-traditional US Treasuries market players and create additional liquidity, leading to stronger, more efficient markets worldwide,” said Harris Brumfield, CEO of TT. “In addition, this decision signals an extension of our business revenue, as it is the first time Trading Technologies has directly connected to the cash market. While vastly increasing our user base, this will create incredible efficiencies and trading opportunities by making the cash and futures markets tradable through one ISV,” concluded Mr. Brumfield.

    About Trading Technologies
  7. I traded on espeed when I traded the basis. The cash market is a very different market than anything I had seen before. New rules seemed to pop up daily. Every time I htought I had it figured ou I would get cheated out of a trade somehow. And when I called espeed for an explanation I would be quoted a rule that seemed to be made u on the spot. I looked at the brokertech system within the past few months. It seemed to trade much more like a regular futures market. They didn;t have all of the BS like price improvement and locked markets like espeed had. Is this the Icap system this article is talking about or is it xomething different all together. The link between TT and Brokertech this article talked about made me think it might be something different. Although I trade my futures on TT, I wasn't aware that the brokertech system was tied into it? Do you know anything more about this? I'd be interested in trading the basis again but I really disliked espeed's system.
  8. TGM



    What TT is doing is simply running ICap//Brokertec's market on the Xtrader front end. So basically you can spread them easily. As you know cash margins about the same as futures. Brokertec's new owners ICap (these two combined have now become bigger than Espeed) planned on moving thier disgusting volume on Brokertec's futures like system. It would be a natural progression throwing it on TT and cutting out Espeed. It also gets rid of Brokertec's front end development costs and basically puts them in front of all the futures traders as well as brokerages who all have TT anyways.

    I know many Large basis/curve trading groups that can't wait to get rid of extra screens. The volume of Icap/brokertec running on the TT screens is supposedly SCARY. I have not seen it yet. But I know some that have. My guess is with all of TT's functionality like auto-spreader it will really drive volume. We will see.
  9. JoHa


    maptrader and TGM,

    I think its important to clarify the TT/BTEC situation. BTEC has a cash bond style marketplace meaning they have some of the same stupid rules that eSpeed has on their system. This includes work up and not being able to cancel your order for 2 seconds after it has been placed, etc. eSpeed has a lot more stupid rules, such at the price improvement you mentioned. BTEC is working on a futures style matching engine to run side by side with their bond style engine. It won't have the antiquated bond rules described here. It will be first in, first out. Like it should be in my opinion. There are a lot of issues. BTEC doesn't want to alienate the primary dealers who like the old style bond marketplace. They are also trying to link the liquidity pools. I'm curious how they are going to try to solve that one. They are waiting for TT to write to their new style matching engine and there is still some internal debate as to when, and if, they want to release this futures style market place. I don't think we've heard the last of this.
  10. TGM



    Since they have announced this. Everyone has got on the bandwagon talking about how this would help. I agree with you on all the stupid rules. That is why I just trade futures. Most traders (cash) have said it is about damn time they have tried to bring their rules into the 21st century. The old cantor rules (espeed) have been around forever and are USELESS for traders in an all electronic market place.

    I believe Brokertec's success/volume has been built on shitcanning some these rules. I say take it the whole way to futures style. Espeed is talking to dealers in the backrooms telling them how this will hurt their business ---you know getting political and what not. I say-- let brokertec do this --and let the market decide. What is wrong with that!?!?!! This is a FREE market or SHOULD be.

    By the way, TT can already support this. It is as simple as running the fixed income futures from the CBot. They already have the engine (or a version of it done). The problem has been ESpeed doing things behind the scene.
    #10     Aug 15, 2004