Discussion in 'Trading Software' started by Reaver, Jun 7, 2008.

  1. WTF?

    I can't find any info on it other than on Steidlmayer's website, and even then there isn't much info to be had.

    Does anyone here have any experience with it?

    How does one even obtain the software? I see nowhere it is even offered for sale, however I see that there has been recent updates to the software per the homepage, and Steidlmayer is still offering classes on it...which of course indicates it is still out there.

    Just wondering if anyone knows anything about Capflow32.

  2. rwk


    I used Capflow32 for several years and attended the classes during that time. I dropped my subscription several years ago, and I have since lost touch with developments. I noticed there is an information request form on the website, but I don't know how responsive they are. It's not a very big organization. You might have better luck calling.

    Depending on how much background you have in Steidlmayer's work, you might have trouble getting up to speed. I know I would. I started studying this stuff in the late 1980's. The theory has evolved a lot, but the changes seem to have been pretty continuous. Some people seem to be better able than I am at picking up in the middle of something. That's why I rarely cut class in college.

    The trouble I have with Steidlmayer's theories are that he doesn't explain himself very well, doesn't write well, yet his ideas are so original that it's a struggle to keep up. I really liked Capflow, especially the part he calls the 0-4 program, but I was forced by circumstances to cut my expenses and focus on more conventional stuff that seemed to have a quicker payoff. I would like to get back to Capflow some day...

  3. I$land


    I know what you mean.

    I sent them an email a few months back and never got a response from them.

    I thought maybe it is very expensive and they only respond to institutitions ???

    I don't know...
  4. I$land


    I just saw what you wrote rwk.

    So how much was it per month ?
  5. rwk


    I am guessing it was early 2003 that I dropped my subscription, and my best recollection was that I was paying something like $2500/year for Capflow32 and another $250/year for Capflow v3.7. The classes were free, but travel to Chicago and lodging added up fast. I got Capflow 3.7 because I wanted everything, though I never used it (couldn't figure it out).

    That was about the time they stopped supplying data, so data fees (something like $1750/year) would have been extra.

  6. I$land


    Thanks for the info rwk.
  7. Hi rwk,

    did you mean 2500 USD per year or 25000 USD per year ?

    When I was in contact with S. Hawkins I remember them leasing it for 10.000 USD per year (you had then to pay the datafeed)

    Do you think training in Chicago is necessary or would it be feasible to practice from home with appropriate material ?

  8. rwk


    Hi Gordon,

    After my previous post, I remembered that at the time I decided to discontinue my subscription, I talked with Pete by phone. He mentioned that if I continued my subscription I could keep the old rate (2500 USD/year), but that if I discontinued and re-subscribed later, the rate would be much higher. I didn't know how much more, probably nobody did, but I am not surprised if it is $10k or more per year now.

    Capflow is very sophisticated software encapsulating the life's work of a legendary trader. It is only for serious traders, and it is not too surprising it has gotten expensive. I have no idea how someone would learn to use it now, much less the theory behind it, who has not been involved from the early days. I guess a lot depends on how quickly one picks these things up, and how well the training materials have been developed since I last used it.

    Simply forking over $10k, or whatever it costs now, will not make you a successful trader. You will also have to invest a lot of hard work, and there is a chance you will never get it. I seriously doubt that many people will find this the shortcut to unlimited riches.

    I went through a phase in my life where I was trying to learn how to make money in financial trading from those who were doing it. The Wizards books by Schwager were helpful for giving me an overview of many of the top traders and what they were doing. Pete Steidlmayer was an obvious choice to learn from because of his enviable track record, and because he was open to training anybody. I was fortunate to also meet other great traders, and I served an apprenticeship with another legendary trader. No one of them gave me a cookie cutter approach to the easy money, but I got bits and pieces from each. I even learned a little from some pretty mediocre traders.

    One of the things I have concluded is that I will probably never become famous as a trader, perhaps not even rich. As I have gotten older, I have also gotten more risk-averse. I am not the gunslinger most ETers are, or want to be. I have found there a lot of ways to trade successfully, but trading is hard enough that it is hard to teach someone else. I try to leave clues here and there without giving away my hard-won edge, but I doubt that most will see the value among the dross. But that's the way trading is.

  9. Hi rwk,

    thanks for your detailed comment.

    I was near to quit trading a few years ago, when a friend (thank you A.) in 2002 suggested me to take a look at Steidlmayer's work.

    I realized that it was not an easy way, considering also that MP is not a system di per se, but simply another way of organizing and displaying market structure. However, I think that trading is a psychological game more than other, and MP fits well my idea of how the market's framework is (with its theory about participants, value etc.)

    Returning to Capflow, Steve Hawkins told me he uses it for a longer-term trading. Do you think it will be useful for an "intraday swings" way of trading too ?

  10. rwk


    Hi Gordon,

    I don't think that will work very well. I'll try to explain.

    Recall that Market Profile theory divides the day into 48 half-hour time periods. Begining with period "A" at 8am (Central), each time period is assigned a case-sensitive letter (I don't recall which two are left over). When the market trades at or though a price, that constitutes a time/price opportunity (TPO), meaning that anybody could have traded at that price in that time period. The MP graphic denotes a TPO with a print of the time period. Capturing the passage of time of very basic to MP theory, and everything is based on half-hour periods that don't give you enough data points intraday to be all that meaningful. Capflow is build out of profiles, so changing MP also changes Capflow. I think that intraday data has a lot of noise in it, at least for the type of information Capflow is trying to capture.

    You might be able to re-design the theory to use shorter time periods, but then you would need all new software for that.

    To the OP: If you don't get a response from the Steidlmayer office, you might contact Steve Hawkins:

    #10     Jun 11, 2008