Can you place orders before the market opens? (newb question)

Discussion in 'Order Execution' started by Vel, Nov 8, 2002.

  1. Im sorry, i wasn't trying to sound rude...Im just pointing out that in 1995 you could take 5k, by a ton of a 2.00 internet stock and hang on for the can't do that anymore because of the new rules....and if he doesn't know about pre market orders im pretty sure he doesn't know about the PDT rules.
    #21     Nov 8, 2002
  2. if you're going to trade now, trade small. don't blow all your money and then have nothing left for when (if) you eventually figure out how to trade profitably. if you really have that little trading knowledge, expect to get killed.
    #22     Nov 8, 2002
  3. ...yeah but what else can he do with the money? mutual funds?
    You should really go to a simulator though and learn trading techniques...forget what your results are ( all simulators are rigged...kind of like vegas but in reverse)...learn how to enter orders, hide orders, read the market makers ect...
    #23     Nov 8, 2002
  4. i have some advice for you, but you won't like it. sometimes i wish i could fade (trade against) myself, but i'm not that shitty of a trader anymore. so my trades aren't really bad enough to trade against. you, on the other hand, are probably in for some big losers. you should write down EXACTLY why you make your decisions (why you entered, exited, etc.). then go back and study your big losers. see if you can make rules so that you can trade the opposite.
    #24     Nov 8, 2002
  5. TSaimoto

    TSaimoto Guest

    We're not saying you're an idiot...

    I don't think we're trying to keep you on your toes...

    Start hitting books and put your first 10 trades... I hope you feel the same way now as you will in the future.

    Still, keep us informed.
    #25     Nov 8, 2002
  6. Vel


    ok guys..So let me ask a question..If there was one book out there that could encompass most of what you know about daytrading, has it been printed yet?

    Also..if you could do it all over again, for absolute ease of learning the whole market and everything..How would you start off? For instance..What books would you read..Any online courses?

    Some people have disagreed with online courses, but I think after reading a book on the general basics of everything I will feel the need to invest the money in one for the "hands on hold my hand" approach.
    #26     Nov 8, 2002
  7. Books are great. Some are written in such a way as to give you this warm fuzzy feeling that all you have to do is click a couple of times and pull a 10% return on your money each day.

    I've read some books, but the best book by and far (for me) was Mark Douglas' book called "Trading in the Zone." It is pretty much strictly psychology of trading, but the insight in the book is paramount to being successful in your goals (not just trading).

    However, my experience was this. I read his book before really trading futures seriously and it was a good read. After trading for a few weeks and losing 20% of my capital, I decided to slow down some and re-read his book. When you re-read it a second time after having experienced those emotions first-hand, the book unleashes so much more insight.

    If I had to do it all over again, I would say this about trading.

    1) Don't ever trade because you can. The ability to trade anything can be an overwhelming power to push you into trading just for kicks. That is gambling, that isn't trading. I gambled for two weeks -- I wasn't trading.

    2) Cut your losses and let your profits go (trail them with a stop). You will have an overwhelming urge to take profits as soon as you get them. That is strictly fear pushing you to take them before the market takes them back. The market doesn't know you from anyone else, and it is willing to give you a LOT of profits just as easily as it is willing to go against your position until you can't stand the pain. I've got more winning +1 ES trades than I do losers, but I froze up on many bad trades and got out at significant losses. Had I done the reverse, my account would be break-even at worse and profitable at best.

    3) Don't predict. Many say it is ok to have a judgement about the market, but that is even setting yourself up for biases. Just trade in the here and now. Observe where the market has been "recently" and any patterns that look familiar to you. If you see a good trade develop, take it -- do not hesitate. Hesitation is caused by fear -- and fear is caused by unrealistic expectations that you could lose big. If you make a trade and the market doesn't confirm your original reason for entering -- get out. Don't hesitate, don't worry about the small loss -- just get out. You can lose 3 out 5 times and the other 2 winners will more than make up for it -- if you let your profits go.

    4) Follow a system -- any system that seems to work, but follow something where you will not stray and make trades "just for the hell of it." If you find yourself entering the market on a whim you are gambling. Trading does not equal gambling. You can win for a day or maybe a week straight by gambling, but eventually you will fail. Stick to a system that works and you may lose for a week straight, but you will come out ahead in the long run.

    5) I will never tell myself that I know everything there is to know about the market. Treat yourself as a stupid idiot and let the market tell you when you are right or wrong. There is something to learn each day, and anyone who thinks otherwise will limit their utmost potential as a trader.

    6) Learn to deal with emotions. If you are sticking to a system that works, you don't need to sweat a loss. Just go to the next trade. Losses will happen -- trust me I know. The market doesn't always do what you think it will do -- even with a perfect set-up. Sometimes no matter what you do, you will lose.

    7) Sometimes you may want to take time off from trading. By all means, do it. Just because you need time away from the market doesn't make you "weak" or a bad trader. It just means you need to collect yourself and absorb the information that caused you to take a break.

    That's about it. Other's will have different views, but in retrospect, these are things that I think are most important for me as a trader. You will definitely learn a lot about yourself from trading -- that is for sure.
    #27     Nov 8, 2002
  8. mark1

    mark1 Guest

    I'm going to print this stuff, man you wrote so good! :cool:
    #28     Nov 8, 2002
  9. Vel


    yeah very good tips.

    I find it odd actually how much negativity there is from people in the daytrading thing, however.

    I was in an IRC chat today after hours looking for newbie advice. All i got really initally was once again "Oh you're not gonna make it, only 3% of anyone who daytrades makes any money, good friggin luck, yakkety yack". It makes me think like, well what the hell are you doing here then wasting your time? If you're actually one of the clandestine 3% and are so good, then howabout you actually teach me something?

    I don't get it.
    #29     Nov 9, 2002
  10. What amazes me is that each time I hear the quoted "percentage survival rate," it goes up. Apparently we are now at a 97% failure rate.

    I would honestly just ignore it. If you don't try, your probability goes to 0%, so you have much better odds if you try.
    #30     Nov 9, 2002