Can you believe this?

Discussion in 'Options' started by badlucktrades, Sep 19, 2015.

  1. i960

    i960

    These types of trades are asking to get your face ripped off one of these days. They're gimmicky and the premium is not even close to being worth the risk.
     
    #11     Sep 19, 2015
  2. i completely agree. definitely risky. definitely a chance to have my ass handed to me. the thing is, i enter these trades last hour or less. these ones were entered 20 minutes to closing. of course anything can happen, but i believe its highly improbable. not sure what you mean by gimmicky though..
     
    #12     Sep 19, 2015
  3. i960

    i960

    It's gimmicky because you're trying to make pennies on perceived sure-thing bets.
     
    #13     Sep 19, 2015
  4. how are they "sure thing" bets? I never even remotely suggested they were.

    arent we all trying to make pennies when it comes to options? you're either picking up a few cents in theta, picking up a few cents in being right in direction.

    the only thing thats different is risk:reward profiles.

    Im not able to predict direction, but i feel more comfortable managing a position to collect 0.1-0.2 the last 20 minutes before expiration, than I do putting on an OTM credit spread or trying to be right on direction of a debit spread a week or two before.

    Havent tried putting on 1-2 month spreads yet, but Im looking into those, I just dont like having some much time risk l, where anything can happen.
     
    #14     Sep 19, 2015
  5. i960

    i960

    That is what I'm saying - you're trying to make pennies by avoiding risk and not taking into account the larger risk you actually have vs the reward. Selling expiring options 20-30 minutes before they expire is a total gimmick that depends on probability of strikes not going ITM "since there's only a half hour left."

    Personally I don't go for pennies. I sell right at the money and manage delta when things go against me. I don't care as much if options go ITM because I'm selling at peak gamma; the *rate* at which it would get worse for me decreases - whereas the penny sellers have an exponential increase in how worse it can get. I do take into account both direction and volatility but I'd say that when I sell options I probably focus more on direction honestly. However if volatility is very low I may not even sell anything due to being exposed to that risk.

    Obviously my strategies are not always winners by any means but I'm not ever risking 5-10 to make 1.
     
    #15     Sep 19, 2015
  6. yeah i agree the risk reward isnt great. when you sell atm options, how long of a duration do you go for? Im assuming you close out one side as it moves in your favor, and reestablish at a diffrrent date?

    when youre picking your strikes, if youre atm theres a high probability of it going past your break even points in either direction. is there not?

    would you be willing to share an example of a trade youve done?
     
    #16     Sep 19, 2015
  7. destriero

    destriero


    Then your risk is 1.32 SPY points out to 197 on shares. How is that "no risk"?
     
    #17     Sep 19, 2015
  8. welcome to high prob trading. spx and spy both have their evils...
     
    #18     Sep 19, 2015
  9. sorry you're right. i wasnt thinking about the inbetween, completely missed that.

    so if spy stays between 195.50-197, then its an unrealized "loss" on the short position.

    If thats the case Ill just reestablish a similar position. and hopefully the credit will outweigh the difference in strikes.
     
    #19     Sep 19, 2015
  10. destriero

    destriero


    You'll receive a bit more for the put, but you can't structure a reversal (short put, long call) that will provide a risk-less return, or anything approaching it. There is no significant skew inside 40-deltas OTM, or there would be conversion arb potential.
     
    #20     Sep 19, 2015
    i960 likes this.