i think it's more than that. btw, love yer posts, don. stops are arguably not NECESSARY for many traders who do sit and monitor their positions really closely. but even when i do that, i always set stops, and always upon entry (when trading YM). my reasons are this. my setups work, and work profitably, when i set specific stop #'s. as soon as u enter a position, you "own" it, and unless you are a Godlike Trader (tm), emotion starts stepping in. Emotion and ownership cloud judgment. My most inviolate rule is that my stop is set on entry (in dow futures) and is never moved. period. that enforces discipline and consistency. and keeps me from eating like a bird, and ... well you know the story. i think stops are a very good thing. imo, the best mindset is when you can see yer stop hit, and not feel negatively about it. you took your setup. it didn't work out. oh well. that is trading. it's not deterministic. it's probabilistic. on to the next trade.
i love this "they" stuff i trade from 1 to 5 cars of YM if "they" are gonna move the friggin' dow jones futures contract several points to hit my stop, more power to em fwiw, though. i rarely trade during the doldrums, and only one or two very specific setups. it's thinner during these hours, and sure "they" can wiggle it a little bit these things are heavily arb'd between the DIA, baskets of indivual stocks, and the other bigger contracts (which are fungible). it can't get out of balance more than a very small amount without arbing bringing it back in line sure, if i am trading a stock that sell for $2, and trades 200k shares a day, i might worry about a MM gunning for my stop but in general, i think people use the "*they*" excuse to excuse a trade that they lost $$$ on. gotta blame somebody (besides yourself), hence "THEY" did it when you are on the right side of a trade, it is never "they" that are manipulating it in the direction you want it to go. when it goes against you otoh... which is my point
ok ok....yea...well...I guess the whole they're after me deal just isn't gonna hold up...but I do think in the past there may have been some similar market manipulations when maybe some markets could have been pushed a little bit more easily
========== Good points; & with weaker brand names like [ to use Don Bright's link example]; Egghead.com, there could be additional problems.
Some brokers hold stops locally, while others send them out to the "floor." But it doesn't really matter whether insiders see them or not because they know where you'll place them, even if they're not physical. Millions of traders came before you and applied the same logic to stop placement that you do every day. So unless you find a more creative way to accomplish this task, you'll wind up selling at the worst possible price anyway.
this is a joke thread right? if you have an order sitting in the market, why bitch when it gets filled? do you bitch as much when your entry order gets filled? what about if you have a profit target, and that gets filled? do you bitch then? if you dont want to get filled when the market reaches $xxx, dont put an order there! simple! is it because when the order is filled, the market zipps back in the other direction? well, how about when you reach your profit target and the market promptly zipps back - do you bitch then, or do you tell yourself how smart you are at 'predicting' the market within a few ticks? your stop should be at a place where YOU deem the market direction or structure to have changed. it is at a point where you are no longer sure if the original context or reason for you being in that trade no longer exists. if price only prints at that level once before reversing does it matter? the truth is that price printed there. there is no way of knowing at that moment in time whether price will reverse or continue, unless you are the fabled 'they' so, if the market is telling you that conditions have changed, why do you want to be in the market? could it be that you cant afford to risk that much? could it be that you are under capitalized? could it be yet another affront to your ego? please, get some perspective here. armatures look at profit, pros look at risk.
that statement about risk is absolutely true, and pro traders treat this as a business amateurs think "how much (more) can i win/get out of this trade" pros think "how do i protect my capital" first, people learn how to lose money in the market then, they learn how not to lose money finally, the third step (that most traders fail) - they learn how to make money everybody tries to get to step 3. most fail to properly learn step 2 concentrate on your setups, maintaining your stops, and the money will take care of itself