c robinson- I wish I could help you but I can not. I started traded nyse in 1996. We had a real advantage trading nyse prior to the pennying and the emins. My theory is that shortly after the method I used was publicized smart guys with a computer said well we can put a stop to that---- we will just arb stocks with the minis and take away those nice pops a trader needs. Then you had bright and their bracketing. Of course that is why I am going to train my computer to stuff those arb computers. I have daytrading trade setups that work. The problem is they frequently hit at the same time. And if I miss them that once or twice a day they hit I have completely wasted my time. I have decided to learn programming and become more automated. I will fight computers with computers because I have lost interest in trying to scratch out money with my senses. I suspect you will do the same.