CALPERS Files Lawsuit vs NYSE

Discussion in 'Trading' started by waggie945, Dec 16, 2003.

  1. if Bill Clinton were an exchange he would be the NYSE. great marketing but a little slick around the rules.
    #41     Dec 17, 2003
  2. Its about time!
    #42     Dec 17, 2003
  3. Mecro


    I never said NYSE is best in its current form. But almost everyone here is completely overexxaggerating the evils of NYSE & Gang. Their biggest manipulation practices only affect the average US masses and in all realism, the masses get screwed regardless in what they do. And NYSE does give back because thats how their system works. A lot of the ridiculous BS that Naz does would never happen with NYSE. Yet Naz is supposed to be the better fair and orderly market model. Obviously NYSE system does provide many advantages and in return they do what they do to make their millions.

    It's just really funny to see traders post their support for CALPERS just because they can't trade with the specialists. Look, none of us have any say in this because NYSE in fact provides us an advantage if you can grasp it. If you want to defend mom & pop investors, then I understand and I support you. But CALPERS is not doing that. I do not buy any of this self promotion crap and public relations stunt. Only ones who are gonna benefit from this lawsuit are the heads of CALPERS and their lawyers.

    Bottom line, none of us have any real reason to start bitching and saying "Go CALPERS, Screw NYSE". If you want to start proclaiming the rightentious upon NYSE, well there are much worse situations out there. You wanna talk about Good Ole Boys club? Look at the Ivy League system and any major corporation. Those entities affect a lot more people than NYSE ever will in a decade.

    Futures is actually a good model for a fair and unbiased market. But most NYSE stocks could never trade like that without a central inventory controller. Some could and I would expect them to start trying out trading just like futures.
    #43     Dec 18, 2003
  4. #44     Dec 18, 2003
  5. Well I got my point across on what I wanted to say, so I will leave it at that. I was not really arguing pro nasdaq or pro nyse. I trade both markets and have probably made the majority of my money in NYSE over the last year as I trade that market much more. So basically the assertion that the only people who do not like the NYSE policies are the ones that can't trade with specialist is WRONG. I have made a lot of money trading with the specialist system but that does not change my point of few that it is corrupt and needs to have some changes. I bring that up because you keep making the assumption that the only ones who feel the NYSE system is corrupt are the ones who can't trade it. That was really the point I was bringing up -- that the determining factor of whether you feel the NYSE market needs to evolve should not be based on whether you are making money with that market. What if volatility drys up more and the abuses of pennying, etc progress to a point where it hampers your trading even more then it does now -- maybe even to the point where you are not making money with it. Is that when you change your mind about that market structure and would want reform or would you still hold onto your position of the NYSE being a great in its present form despite the obvious bias and corrupt trading practices that occur everyday. By the way it does occur everyday in plan view whether it effects your current trade or not. It just happens that it might not get you everyday.

    By the way I think the NYSE would be great if it had more electronic trading with a specialist role as long as it is set up so that the specialist is not given so much leeway to interfer with trading. Actually a form that is much quicker in execution and trades more like it really is intended to be rather than what it has become.
    #45     Dec 18, 2003
  6. :D :D I don't agree -- I have too much respect for the NYSE -- but that was a good comeback.:D :D
    #46     Dec 18, 2003
  7. in a couple of weeks i will be starting my 7th year of trading nyse stocks. today is the first day i am seriously considering leaving the market.

    when the news first came out about grasso and his pay package i was encouraged. i thought maybe they would get someone from the outside that would bring a little fairness back into the exchange. today, we learn that an executive from the parent company of one of the biggest specialist firms has been named as the the tune of $4 million a year.

    i have watched the implementation of decimals single handedly give the specialist a license to steal. penny jumping seems to be just as prevalent now than when it was first initiated. Donaldson, a former exchange employee has done nothing but give lip service to "looking into the matter." i will not be holding my breath.

    i remember when i was a naive beginner and i heard that slk didn't really want our(day traders) business. my first reaction was, "those snobs, are they that rich???" little did i realize that they didn't want us competing for their proprietary profits.

    similarly to downtick, i too am profitable. but today as i traded 50,000 shares and broke even net, i kept focusing on why aren't these guys just letting the stocks trade??? are they that slow that they can't keep up with the order flow. do they need every last advantage that is already stacked in their favor? my god, i can not even imagine how much money would be possible to make if they just let the stocks trade. i would guess that 40% to 50% of the time they were freezing their books with 1 x 1 or were in report mode.

    well i think that i have had enough.....i'm getting too old to have to fight someone everyday that is suppose to have a fiduciary responsibility to make sure i get the best execution. with friends like those know the saying.

    as i watch the final prints of the afternoon session, i can only shake my head and wonder how these allstar specialist would perform on this side of the screen. i have heard in the past that the specialist that have attempted to trade like the rest of us, have done worse than pitiful.

    i have listened to one former specialist laughingly recall how he taught a new specialist the "tricks" that had made him so much money. i have watched good traders one by one , wash out of this business. personally i don't think it has anything to do with being a bear market.

    i am glad to see someone step up to the plate as calpers is doing but i am afraid it is too late. this case will probably drag on for a few years and then they might be forced to make some small changes. i feel i have waited too long as it is.

    i would welcome any suggestions from those that have made the jump successfully to other markets. please feel free to pm me, all suggestions are appreciated.
    #47     Dec 18, 2003
  8. Mecro


    7th year on NYSE and you having problems? Man, whichever stocks you are trading, you really need to stop and find new ones.

    I traded less than half what you did, made my financial goal and left before 1pm. There was only one stock that I traded which really baffled me. I did small sizes just to test him out and see if he changed. This specialist gives me the impression that he either has no clue what he is doing or has complete & blatant disregard for any rules or regulations regarding order flow. So instead of bitching and moaning about, I say screw him and never trade him again. I knew what I was possibly getting into when I was sending in orders. He'll get his, especially with increasing investigations. Specialists like this one should be kicked out of NYSE and put on blacklists.

    Stop fighting the specialist and the tape. That is obviously your problem. So many NYSE stocks have absolutely beautiful uptrends and downtrends EVERYDAY and not even on high volume. How can any trader have any issues with that? Of course, eventually too many idiots get in and start hammering away the bid or offer because they have zero patience and discipline. Then they get screwed and they blame the specialist. You expect him to start giving away his money or back away because the idiots in the stock are stupid enough to bail ASAP and give the buyer/seller a better fill?
    #48     Dec 18, 2003
  9. exactly. you cannot compete with him, there is not enough margin in the market any longer. there was when times were fat. it happens in <i>every</i> business.

    he makes the market: that is his franchise; two specialists in the same stock would be redundant.

    the NYSE has been the engine of capitalism for generations; the specialist takes extraordinary risk in addition to having front-line profit opportunity. if he abuses his privilege, the market and the rule of law will eventually penalize him.

    incidentally, specialists aren't the only business people (nor is the NYSE the only institution) with integrity issues these days.
    #49     Dec 18, 2003
  10. hayman



    Beg to differ with you on this, but the Specialist NEVER takes undue risk. Look at the big market downturns in recent history - 1987 and 2000-2002 ring a bell - the Specialists were no where to be found when stocks plummetted. They did not take on extra risk to mitigate the stiff downturns that occurred. If you believe otherwise, I suggest that you research this further.

    Specialists are here to make money Period. That is their goal, and that is why they work for companies that are profit-motivated. In theory they are there to preserve the market and be the last resort for buying/selling. Instead, they are the first to let a price drop significantly to pick off a SELL STOP, and make a quick buck.
    #50     Dec 18, 2003