Funny, I can find plenty of references to the ancient kingdom of Israel in many different texts. The Israelite/Jewish people are clearly a distinct nationality, and not a 20th century invention.
OK, how about the fact that there were Jewish communities continually settled throughout the Middle East for thousands of years. How about the fact that in the latter 1800s, the biggest ethnic/religious group in Jerusalem was Jews, while most of the rest of what is now Israel was barren, wasted land with a bunch of nomads (check the descriptions, from US diplomats to Samuel Clemens). And even of what is now Israel, the original partition involved 1/3 of this still tiny, postage stamp country. Meanwhile, Arabs settled in places like Northern Sudan, and have worked to exterminate the native Christians and animists, but I don't see a worldwide outcry to remove these people. And what of the hundreds of thousands of Arab Jews who were forced to flee their ancient communities and head to Israel? What have the Arab countries that pushed these communities out done to help the "Palestinians," since they forced out hundreds of thousands of Arab Jews AND encouraged or coerced many "Palestinians" to leave their homes. By the way, who the hell cares what some asshole physicist says. Appealing to some scientist for his political views is an incredibly stupid fallacy. It tells us nothing. Bobby Fisher was one of the greatest chess champions of all time, and he was born a Jew, and he is a freaking schizo and full of self-hatred. Every group has ignorant people. What is your point??
Umm, I Missed Boat, you missed point. I was mocking the cognitively challenged Electron for his ridiculous post, not agreeing with him.
As a Libertarian (and Atheist), I don't usually agree with the Christian Right...but in this case Hal Lindsey is right on the money: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- An open letter to the Palestinian people -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WorldNetDaily.com I regularly get emails from Arab readers and well-meaning Westerners who watch too much CNN âcoverageâ taking me to task for my position regarding Israel and the Palestinians. For the most part, the letters reflect a general viewpoint that I donât care about Arabs, or Palestinians, or their plight. As one Palestinian reader asked me, âWhat about the victims of Israeli policy?â Iâd like to take this opportunity to send an open letter to the Palestinian âman on the streetâ: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear Child of Abraham, It is an ironclad certainty that I grieve for the situation you currently find yourselves in. I grieve when I read of homes being bulldozed by the Israeli Defense Forces in retaliation for this attack or that against Israeli targets. I grieve for those innocents who suffer the consequences of the actions of Hamas, Hezbollah, Fatah and other perpetrators of terror. I grieve for those among you who saw the bright promise of peace that shone so brilliantly on that warm September afternoon in the Rose Garden in 1993. I grieve for those who saw the hope that was manifested in the simple act of a handshake between Yitzhak Rabin and Yasser Arafat, only to see that promise squandered. I grieve for those who watched as the hope of peace faded, and as the dogs of war began to nip at your heels. Today, those dogs are at your throat and I grieve for the hopelessness of your situation. I grieve for your dead, and for the families that remain behind to mourn their loss. I grieve for the hatred that has replaced the burgeoning friendships that began following the signing of Oslo and the beginning of what appeared to be a process of peace. But my grief is not for the âvictims of Israeli aggression,â since it would be misplaced. The victims of the intifada are victims of a Palestinian leadership that has perverted the truth. Your leadership has had almost a decade in which to indoctrinate your children in hatred and violence and they have used it to their best advantage. The victims of the intifada are the children who are being bussed to indoctrination camps to be taught how to kill without regard for their victims. A counselor at one such camp called âParadise Campâ bragged in the July 20 Jerusalem Post, âWe are teaching the children that suicide bombs make [the] Israeli people frightened and we are allowed to do it. ... We teach them that after a person becomes a suicide bomber he reaches the highest level of paradise.â The victims of the intifada are the children, some as young as 12, bussed to rally points and deliberately placed in the front ranks of the stone throwers, with Palestinian snipers shooting from behind them. Your leadership âpurchasesâ the lives of these children as martyrs, paying the families of those killed a paltry $2,000 per life. Wounded children are worth much less, with the value of their injuries assessed by your leadership as being worth only $300. I grieve for Mohammed al-Dura, the 12 year-old boy murdered by your own forces during a shoot-out with the IDF. His death made excellent propaganda for Yasser Arafat, but the price of that propaganda was far too high, despite Arafatâs eagerness to pay that price. I grieve for the families of suicide bombers who have given up their sons as a consequence of a leadership who places no value on the lives of its constituency, placing instead a premium on their deaths relative only to the number of innocent civilians that die with them. The victims of your leadership are legion, but the most heart-rending stories of suffering at the hands of Yasser Arafat and his band of thugs come from within your own ranks. I grieve for the five young men sentenced to death by firing squad after a ten-minute trial for "collaborating" with Israel. If collaboration with Israel is a crime worthy of death, then your leadership represents the apex of hypocrisy. Or else Arafat would long ago have put on his own blindfold and smoked his last cigarette. For making a peace he never intended to honor at the expense of his own people is collaboration defined. My heart breaks for your suffering. But none of that grief changes reality. Your current suffering is the result of your allowing yourself to be deceived by an opportunistic cynic who knew back in 1993 that genuine peace with Israel would mean the end of his power. Without the conflict to define him, Yasser Arafatâs political existence would self-destruct. Peace is his mortal enemy. Within six months of signing the Oslo agreement for peace, the first Egged bus exploded into flames on a Tel Aviv street. Dozens of young Palestinian lives have since dissolved into a similar pink mist of impotent rage, created and fanned by the need of Yasser Arafat and Fatah to justify their continued political existence. The responsibility for the suffering of your people rightly belongs in the hands of the man who once took the hand of Yitzhak Rabin in an empty gesture of a peace that would never come. By design, Arafat raised the hopes of both sons of Abraham that, finally, reconciliation of a 4,000-year-old conflict might be at hand, knowing full well he intended to bring about the current conflict. Your leadership always intended to implement the âPhased Plan for the Destruction of Israelâ that Arafat promised to renounce as a condition of peace. As recently as May 2000, Abd El Aziz Shanhian, a member of Arafatâs cabinet revealed that truth in one of your own newspapers, Al Ayaam. As he said then, âThe Palestinian people accepted the Oslo Agreement as a first step and not as a permanent arrangement, based on the premise that the war and the struggle on the ground is more efficient than a struggle from a distant land.â I grieve for you, because Arafat bartered your future to preserve his present. He is a liar. That isnât a value judgment, but rather an observation of fact. He signed an agreement to renounce violence, knowing full well in advance that was never his intention, and that if there were consequences of his perfidy to be paid, they would be paid by his own people. Even now, as you suffer, he continues to lie to you, telling you your suffering is the result of Israeli âaggression.â âRetaliationâ can never be aggression. It is, by definition, a response to aggression. An aggression begun by your own leadership, under the cover of false promises and outright lies, with the full knowledge in advance of the price that aggression would exact from you, while he looted your treasury and installed his Tunisian thugs to help him carry away the booty. While you suffer in poverty and deprivation, he and his Tunisians live in luxury villas, drive Mercedes and wear Armani suits. Your leadership has refused to meet the Israelis halfway, preferring instead to use deception and violence to prop up their own regime. When Israel, recognizing that the halfway mark for Arafat was nowhere near the middle, moved so far toward your side as to offer Arafat 95 percent of what he claimed he wanted back in 1993, Arafat rejected it out of hand and began the current uprising. Arafat knew the price of rejecting the offer would be high, but you would be the ones who had to pay it. Because the price of peace was too high for Arafat to even consider ponying up himself. He likes the trappings of power too much. I grieve for you. But I donât buy for a second that your pain is a consequence of Israeli âaggression.â You could hold in your own hands the keys to peace. But to claim that key, you will first have to drop the rocks, bottles and guns. I pray that you do, for your own sake, and for the sake of the peace co-existence with the other son of Abraham you once claimed as your objective. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The present is just inheritance from the past that some try to hide. Palestinian People are not more terrorists than any other people it is their leaders and government that mislead them because their leaders have always been terrorists and notably allied and FINANCED by the Nazis ! "Muftism and Nazism: World War II Collaboration Documents" http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/nazis.html Muftism and Nazism: World War II Collaboration. Documents (examples of original correspondence) 1) U.S. Confirms Role of Mufti as Nazi Middle East Leader OFFICE OF U.S. CHIEF OF COUNSEL FOR PROSECUTION OF AXIS CRIMINALITY No. 792-PS 17 September 1945 Source of Original OKW Files, Flensburg [Excerpt] LEADS: CANARIS, IBN SAUD, GRAND MUFTI. SUMMARY OF RELEVANT POINTS (with page references): 1. Only through the funds made available by Germany to the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was it possible to carry out the revolt in Palestine. (Page 1). 2. Germany will keep up the connection with the Grand Mufti. Weapons will be stored for the Mufti with Ibn Saud in Arabia. (Page 2). 3. Ibn Saud himself has close connections with the Grand Mufti and the revolting circles in TransJordan. (Page 2).
If you think that some leaders of US are pro Jews you should care much more to see behind curtain: john-loftus is a jew and prosecutor of Nazis this is what he reveals about the creation of Israel: http://www.john-loftus.com/ "As a Justice Department prosecutor, John Loftus once held some of the highest security clearances in the world, with special access to NATO Cosmic, CIA codeword, and Top Secret Nuclear files. As a private attorney, he works without charge to help hundreds of intelligence agents obtain lawful permission to declassify and publish the hidden secrets of our times. He is the author of four history books, three of which have been made into films, two were international best sellers, and one was nominated for the Pulitzer Prize. John Loftus and Mark Aarons in The Secret War Against the Jews (St. Martins Press, 1994) reveal that if Kissinger's foreign policy directives had not been secretly reversed by Alexander Haig during the Nixon years, Israel would have been annihilated. Further, had Jewish underground intelligence director David Ben-Gurion not threatened Nelson Rockefeller with disclosing the Standard Oil Company partnership with I.G. Farben, the petrochemical cartel behind the Third Reich's labor camps and genocidal atrocities, the State of Israel would not have been secured in 1948. Thus threatened, Rockefeller was forced to direct critical votes at the United Nations for Israel's formation."
In my view your attitudes against Palestinians are no better than the nazis views on Jews; but perhaps you live in Israel ? What, are the Palestinians the lowest, filthiest "currency" in the middle east politics ? Don't they have the same right to compensation Jews are claiming on properties expropriated by aggressors/authorities pre-1945; seeing the similar aggression by the jewish state and fanatics ? A Jew born/raised in a concentration camp - was at "home" ? Or is there something "special" with regards to Palestinians in your logic/philosophy ? How irrational can you get ? C'mon - give it your best shot ....
Quote from Gringinho: > In my view your attitudes against Palestinians are no better > than the nazis views on Jews; but perhaps you live in Israel ? Do you really believe that the tens of people who participated in this thread all "live in israel" and are "irrational", just because you don't agree with their opinion? I hope you don't practice the same attitude when you are trading. The Jews in the holocaust didn't claim that Germany belongs to them, and did not try to "throw the Germans to the sea" in order to regain the land. The germans put the jews in concentration camps even though the jews have done no harm to anyone. The Palestinians, on the other hand, do baselessly claim that Israel belongs to them, and practice terror and violence on a constant basis. Even when they were offered a complete Palestinian state with ALL the occupied territories by Barak in 2001, they refused. Their DEMOCRATICALLY elected leader, Arafat, is a renowned terrorist, who associated with Kadafi and with many other "freedom fighters". As mentioned in this thread before, the reason the Palestinians claim Israel belongs to them, is because they know that they are the underdog of the arab world, and that any and every arab country will reject them at best or kill them at worst, like the Jordans did to them in the past. So it's easier for them to blame the "Zionist Jews", than their 'fellow' arabs, for being an unwanted minority.
No, and that was not what I said either. As a matter of fact, I was asking this as he would obviously be emotionally skewed if he was victimzed by some Palestinian terrorist or similar, and this would be "in his favour" with regards to the lack of reasoning skills (being emotionally upset). I always try to use my logic and intelligence while trading. You should try it some day - and see if it works for you as well. Well, what about all the compensation for seized properties and fortunes - farms, businesses etc ? I am talking about the basic right of property - a fundamental principle for capitalism - and even stronger in pure capitalism - like objectivism (Ayn Rand). Jews have of course no blame for anything by being jews - exactly my point used against the extreme opinions viewed by the poster I quoted before. I objected to his views based on ethnicity - and you blatantly missed that. I have nothing nice to say about Arafat - and neither Sharon nor the yahoo before him. Now you show negative views based on ethnic belonging; here we go again .... Imagine how the Rwanda genocide was helped by attitudes similar to those showing extreme ethnic views - or the "ethnic cleansing" in the former Jugoslavia. You and the poster I quoted are just plain wrong - and you can continue to embarass and make a fool of yourself to your heart's content for what I really care. Or perhaps you had some problem grasping opinions when reading at the same time ...