Hagel: Bush Iraq speech like 'Alice in Wonderland' 03/27/2008 @ 5:21 pm Filed by Nick Langewis and David Edwards Senator Chuck Hagel (R-NE) suggests to CNN's Wolf Blitzer that there is no cause for optimism towards the situation in Iraq, propagated by arrogance, with an ever-growing cost in lives and money, despite a recent speech by President Bush. Advertisement "I think this is another episode of 'Alice in Wonderland,'" the Senator says. "What's up is down, and what's down is up. What do you mean, 'stability and security?' Baghdad, for example, has been over the last year essentially ethnically divided." "And," Hagel adds, "when you look at the casualties the United States has taken since since the so-called 'military surge,' over 900 deaths; you look at almost 30,000 wounded, and the money we've put in there. And then, the other point of this is, too: If, in fact, the 'surge' has calmed things to a point where the President and others are saying 'Well, they've done a great service, and they've achieved some terrific things,' why, then, is the administration talking about keeping more American troops in Iraq for the remainder of this year than we had before the 'surge'?" "This," the Senator continues, "is still a very unstable, serious, dangerous situation in Iraq." http://rawstory.com//printstory.php?story=9862
Troll, you post this, yet also post that you think it's amazing that the Iraqis are not able to provide their own security, yet you ALSO post that you are in favor of the US pulling out. Care to explain your hypocrisy this time, troll?
No hypocrisy at all... The Iraqis don't have to provide their own security, just like a spoiled child of wealthy parents doesn't have to work for a living. Necessity is the mother of invention, as long as we are there acting like their controlling parents, they don't have to do it on their own... We want them to grow up? Put them in a position to do it.
TM_Direct and hap, nice job. You know you've owned the Idiotic troll when he starts quoting your posts without adding any content. In Troll language, this means "I'm uncomfortable with the way the discussion is going and I want to change the subject now". I've noticed that in the past few weeks he has started to post weird images again. Last year, he had a huge blowup where he started ranting and raving at everyone, and then fell off the wagon and may have started drinking again. This was presaged by a lot of quoting of other posts with no additions and bizarre image posts. Maybe we're going to get another blowup from the Disgusting Hypocrite ZZZzzzzenu.
You've managed to somehow actually answer a question without ad hominem, so I will respond in kind.... Your logic is that if we pull out, the Iraqis will have no choice but to provide their own security, so therefore it is just a matter of us pulling out. Don't you think our military would gladly hand over more responsibility if they thought they were capable of it? For example, the Iraqi forces don't seem to be doing all that great a job in Basra. Media reports on both sides of the aisle as far as I know acknowledge that the Iraqis are not anywhere near being ready to take over their security situation 100%. We're talking about the internal security situation of a very unstable country here, not whether or not leaving the kids we think are grown up enough alone for an hour is going to result in a messy home. What's at stake is enormous. I don't understand why you're willing to take that risk.
People respond to pressure. Some respond positively, some negatively. It is the Iraqi people's country. As long as they US is there to protect them, they feel no pressure to do it on their own. If they have a deadline, a cut-off point for US protection, it will force them to get their act together. Look, Bush gave Saddam deadlines. Why? Because deadlines work, they are necessary for real progress. Nothing motivates like a deadline. Yet Bush is afraid to give the Iraqi people a deadline...because he has no confidence in them. He is afraid to let them try and possibly fail, but they could respond to the pressure and rise up and win. Not until there is the pressure is there to have to win do we find out how badly the Iraqi people want a democracy. Without a timetable, without the pressure of knowing that they have to learn to take care of their own democracy...they don't really have a democracy. Whenever a timetable is discussed, almost immediately the shift from Bush and his supporters goes to "it will embolden the enemy." Well...so what? So it emboldens the enemy. Are we afraid of the enemy? Are the Iraqi people afraid of the enemy? Where's the courage? Although people don't die in a football game, there are similarities. When time is running out, both sides know that the end of the game is coming. Both sides have to perform. Both sides have pressure. The winning teams respond to that pressure, the losing teams wilt. Like it or not, Iraq is a civil war. Iraqis are killing Iraqis...that is a civil war. The winning side will show more courage, the losing side will wilt. We have given them money, the best training and weapons, and enough time to be in a position to find out if they can win the game, or if they will wilt under the pressure. Let the insurgents know there is a deadline. Let the other team know that you are going to march down the field in the last two minutes. The Iraqi people have to exercise their own will for survival if they really want a democracy. Bush is saying that the violence going on now is a sign or progress, that it is necessary. If we follow that reasoning, then our pulling out and allowing them to defend their own country is also a sign of progress and necessary. Let the people of Iraq now decide what they really want. Let them rise up and take their own country back. Let them defeat the insurgents on their own. Nothing will give them greater pride, and nothing will make them stronger and give them something to keep fighting for. Do you forget how much of an underdog the American colonists were against the mighty forces of King George? Who wants it more, the Iraqi people, or the insurgents? And if the Iraqi people fail on their own against inferior competition, and if a regime that is actually a legitimate and verifiable threat to our existence is formed, we can go back in. We are good at invading, not very good at getting out.