Thanks Trajan, I'm going to look for those cheap flies. My reason for using options in the past was simply for leverage, and based 100% on the chart of the underlying. Sounds like you and rs7 agree with Mcmillan about verticals being a poor choice for traders. To speculate on short term using options for leverage asuming you dont want to hold sold naked options overnight, simple long options may be the best way to go? Last week I picked cdwc from the qcharts hotlist for most volatile stocks as one that might go up. Wends with the stock 44.87 these prices were available bull call 40-50 5.75 debit 40-45 3.95 debit 45-50 2.20 debit bull put 40-50 4.30 credit 40-45 1.25 credit 45-50 2.65 credit All prices buy offer sell at bid, with wide spreads. When you look at those prices do you intuitively see a trade? I looked at closing all of the positions today with stock at 48.10. And the verticals just dont profit enough, to make up for the protection you get against the stock remaining unchanged and IV decreasing.