How many shares a day do newbies and mid level traders trade per day? Based on P/L 2007 thread...some boys trade close to 150K shares per day... sounds about right?????
New traders generally don't trade more than a couple of thousand shares per day until they get to a level of consist success. They do the openings, get comfortable, start surrogate specialist work after a few weeks, and then on to pairs or other choices of techniques. No ticket charges, share pricing only. Only top 5-10% of traders trade 150K per day. that would be 3million shares per month, at which point, they pay fair rates, of course. Don
JD 1028, RE: "traders describe prop as a last chance to work, when you cant get another job-everyone seems unhappy and describe that u are lucky if u make 100k in first year" From the outside looking in things appear as you described. But in my case the opposite is true. I trade at a prop firm because there are few jobs that pay what I make trading. I could not be happier trading, and I would be very unhappy if I only made 100k in a year. But you are right about the first year being tough... YOU WILL NOT MAKE ANY MONEY FOR AT LEAST 3 MONTHS MAYBE LONGER OR NEVER. Nothing in life is easy or free sorry. I trade at a prop. firm because it allows you to have professional leverage. In other words I can trade bigger size. The US stock market, unlike other markets, only allows 4 -1 leverage. (Other instruments like Futures 10x plus, fx 100x) in a retail account. Not so with equities...... so voala...... a golden business opportunity for the savvy entrepreneur... Open a prop. firm and provide the leverage traders get in other markets. You will hear all sorts of stories both good and bad. From happy proprietary traders like myself to sad failures. But isn't that the case with trading in general. For that matter isn't that the case in all business ventures. Some succeed; some do not; and all with various levels of success. The barriers of entry are low. The learning curve is steep. The failure rate is high. And the profit potential is unlimited. Short and simple: It is a better option than trading retail for both the undercapitalized and well heeled trader.
SwiftMike99, RE: Or you could go to swift or other prop with similar model and pay 20 cents per 1000 shares. Doesn't Swift take a significant % of your profits in return for the lower fee structure?
Yes, but at swift you can participate in strategies that really work, like... stuff. So assuming you can take $10000 trading 2 mil shares out of the market, would you rather get 100% and pay $10000 in fees (5$ per 1000*2000) or would you rather get payed 35% and pay only $200 in fees.
all traders want the lowest comm. possible, regardless of style & how much volume they do. its like saying its ok to pay 5.00 for a cup of coffee when you could buy the same cup 2.00 everywhere else. the comm does effect the bottomline for profitable traders. the average experienced trader is doing around 1 million shares monthly on average, so active traders should get a fair rate.. new traders that need training & will do very little volume, most understand paying a higher comm is normal in that situation. a fair rate is 3.50 per thousand with charges & rebates, and less with volume. the industry has changed in the last few years, and spending more that the average is just throwing money away. as most will agree the business model is all the same, similar software, extension of leverage intra-day is neg, very competitive industry, most traders want stability & safety of funds & most firms want experienced traders that will manage their account without going negative, if everone does their part, no reason to feel like a fair comm is a gift when its business, no one is doing anyone any favors, other than trying to build a honest working business relationship. its business like every other industry, buyer beware, do you homework & structure a deal that is comfortable for your needs, everyone is in this for the money, so neg or move on, their are plenty of options available to any trader these days. their is more to trading than the comm, but being charged fairly is a good start with any firm which is a individual choice. BY the way the canadian firms will not allow us residents to open accounts, so thats why the usa firms have a monopoly on a per share basis trading model , and getting less than 100 % payout is not the choice of experienced traders in the usa
I agree with your reasoning 100%. In that scenario you would be much better off with that fee structure. For me it would not work in my favor. I am better paying a per share fee and keeping 100%. I think Schonfeld also has a gross profit split option that you can opt for as well. When I got started in this business in 2000 I actually got a small salary (24k) plus 30% of the net profits trading for Bob Kantor at ETG. (a good deal for a new trader in his 20's with little $ interested in cutting his teeth). Back then rates were a 1.3 cents per share or 12.50 per 1000. They have steadily gone down since. To our benefit. Whatever works best for your type of trading is what is important.