It seems to me that these two firms have the exact pricing? Is this true across the board? Is there anything behind this? Also, I think that they use different execution systems. Can anyone elaborate on it? Is their a major difference in clearing firms and are there what are the advantages/disadvantages? I do know that both can use bullets, can traders at IB use them?
I think the echo guys used to trade at bright. Bright clears thru slk; echo pax/peace clearing (i think) Bright uses redi plus ; echo - a choise of a couple different ones Retail firms (IB) generally don't allow bullets.
I would be glad to answer all your questions, and I don't want a "spam war" on the board. Echo is similar in a few ways, and very different in a few ways. You should do some due diligence before joining any firm. I have posted several times the criteria to judge with. Don
Thanks for the info. After reading a bunch of stuff, it seems like the two are quite similar. Since Bright Trading has been around longer, do you think that this is looked upon as an advantage to traders, in terms of the ability to recruit and retain traders? How is the financial situation at Echo? I would assume since Bright has been in the business much longer, they probably have lot more money. I just read a post from someone that attended Brights class and they say that the owners have over 10 million! Is this money guaranteed to be there at all times? And if not, what amount will they guarantee? Can the owners take that money away, say 7 million, and the traders not know? Can someone please tell me, those who attended the Echo class, how they compare to Echo?
We guarntee a minimum of $10Mil at all times in the owners equity (class a members). The reality is that there is several times that amount (of owners money) in the "class b" accounts as well. No, we cannot take this out without it being reflected on the financial statements....and anyone looking for a firm must look at the entire firm's Audited financial statements (at minimum). Can you imagine signing a document that makes you part of a business and not being able to see the books?? To keep it simple,and "matter of fact" we just print a copy of the balance sheet every year, and keep it with the office managers, and give to any trader who requests it. The real problem arises when firms are formed with little or no "owners" money, and they rely totally on the "newbie" to come in and invest money in the firm by becoming a member. I have seen firms with as little as $10-$50K of owners money ( a single "hiccup" could burn that up). This is not directed at Echo (as the thread may say), but to traders contemplating joining any trading firm, or any business at all for that matter. Don
This subject has been one of the main topics of Elitetrader for months and months and months. Please go to the forums section click on professional firms and read through the threads. If you are curious about the 2 firms. Walk into a Bright office and talk with the manager, than walk into an Echo office and talk with a manager. Getting info off an anonymous message board isn't the best way to find things out. Robert Tharp
I've gone to both seminars and decided to join neither company. The key distinction for me was what Bob Bright said on Friday night at the Bright seminar ... only be involved with something where there is an edge. Bob was a professional Blackjack player, traded in the options pits, traded in the futures pits, and such. Why is he no longer doing any of those? The edge is gone (his words). What is he doing now? He owns a Prop. firm. You get 50-75% of commissions generated by each trader. That's the edge. Don is head of Bright Marketing and Management, along with Investor Awareness, Inc. (the company which puts on the Bright Workshop). Echo Seminars are billed by Symbolic Group. This company is owned by Jonathan and Theresa Kirkland. Jonathan's card lists him as the Vice-President West Coast for Echo Trade. This can be checked at: http://sos.state.nv.us/ofcsrh3.asp .. just type in each person's name. Say 20 paying participants a seminar, 10 seminars a year, that's $200k gross. That's the edge. Being an office manager ... you get 5-10% of all commissions generated by traders under your management ... that's the edge. I'm not here to slander people or firms. Just expressing the reality I've found from paying my $1k fee to each company, visiting each company, doing background research, principle background checks and the like. Robert Ringer, author of "Winning Through Intimidation" and other works quotes the Theory of Reality ... it states that reality isn't the way you wish things to be, nor the way they appear to be, but the way they actually are. Secondly, the theory states that you either acknowledge reality and use it to your benefit or it will automatically work against you. Trading professionally for a living is easy (the way I wish it was). Prop. firms only make money if their traders make money (the way it appears to be). Trading is tough (reality!) Go see the casinos (analogous to Prop. Firms) and the gamblers (analogous to Prop. Traders) in Las Vegas. Come back in a year to see which casinos are left and to see which gamblers are left. I've acknowledged reality and will be putting it to my benefit (that is not professionally trading for a living).
Don, While I agree that it's important to have "owners" money in the firm I don't agree that it's the final decision-making criterion as you would like to have people believe. The truth is you play this capital card constantly because Bright (IMO) has no real competitive advantage besides its capital. I'd much rather trade for a smaller firm that services its traders better, equips them with leading-edge technology and watches its risk a little better. I've heard of some pretty scary incidents relating to Bright's risk control policies. It makes me think that you REALLY need that $10 million buffer capital.