andrasnm Elite Member Registered: Feb 2000 Posts: 581 09-30-02 02:36 PM MPR - welcome on board I stand corrected - as I said it before I traded prop 10+ years ago. It is quite possible that there are plenty of good firms with support now and some more as IT talent is cheap and bountiful now. Why not name your firm to give them some pat on a back and PR? I am not doing any advertising, even for my own firm. But happy to let you know where I am now. Just send me an email or whatever.
Donald, if you ever sit there in that cushy little office of yours, wondering dumbly why you take so much heat on these boards, ie, from real people making real comments (not just some "anonymous posters with a gripe", probably "planted" by your competitors, as you claim), let me tell you, it's comments like the above that fire many of us up. When you speak of the "success of the firm" Donald, are you talking about the success of your traders, or the success of the firm in signing up new traders? Of the latter, there is no doubt you've been wildly successful. 700 traders is quite an achievement. My hat comes off to you. Seems all that marketing by "attraction" (not "promotion") is really paying off. If you're speaking of the success of your traders, that's another matter totally. I'll ask you again. Post these freakin legendary numbers Donny Baby, post 'em up! Don't just say you've got 'em up your sleave. POST 'EM! Hehe, it's so simple ain't it? You'd think he'd just come out and do it! But nooo, not the Donster! Too many "compliance issues" eh Don ? Look, I personally know quite a few Bright Traders that are making money. A couple of them are making very nice money. According to them, it has pretty much nothing to do with anything they learnt in "training" (gee, why doens't that surprise me). Unless the Donster comes out and posts some REAL numbers up that show the success rate of his traders, nobody has any reason whatsoever to believe that a new trader has a better shot at success than anywhere else. (Don, "real" numbers would be, % of new traders making money after one year, % of traders losing money, % of traders who lost all. Nice and easy hey bud? Even you couldn't misinterpet that could ya Donny??) And, as I've stated a few times before, I personally believe that a new traders chances are actually probably less at Bright. What, with their ancient software, outdated "strategies" like OOs and "pair trading"* (where, according to the Brights (crazy but true!), you keep adding and adding to a losing pair until you either win or blow out - wonderful) and constant pressure to make a million trades a day (otherwise you're not "working hard enough"). Oh brother. From a business perspective, these guys have struck gold. From a trader's perspective, what a pack of arrogant bums. * at the "training" I attended in July (was forced to attend rather) they showed us this trader that they allege had made $200k in July from pair trading. Obviously this stunt was meant to wow us all into thinking what geniuses trade there at Bright (and get us signing those new trader forms). To anyone with half a brain, of course, the big number is meaningless. How big was the trader's account? How had he fared the other months? (Did he lose $10k a month for the past 6 , before hitting it big this month? etc etc) Perhaps most surprising thing about this story is the fact that this trader previously blew up a $50k account by continuing to add to a single losing pair is talked about in a positive light, as a triumphant success story! It's not shocking that a pack of know-nothing newbies wouldn't understand the patently simple concept of big risk=big rewards ( I have no doubt he had his big July because of making "bet the farm" size bets), but it's mind boggling that the Brights would ignore it. If readers are wondering, yep, I'm one of those guys that likes to "bumble on with negatives and personal insults". Notice, though, how Don never actually answers the accusation itself? Rather he always tries to deflect the criticism by attributing it to a "sour grapes" ex-trader or competitor? Oldest defense trick in the book. Pity there's always morons that fall for it, no matter how many times they see it. PS - let me offer a helping hand here Donster, because it seems you just don't "get it". Message boards are a fantastic way for a business to interact with its customers to find out exactly what their needs and wants are and to hear the customer's perspective on your business (which, as any businessman will tell you, is the most important perspective). Donald, you and the Bright brigade have an outstanding opportunity to learn from your customers here on ET, one that other business would KILL for. Yet all the feedback seems to be going to waste, since you don't seem to have any desire to take anything on board, you just sit back and defend what you've already got. Well, I guess you never struck me as the sharpest knife in the drawer. Note to others: if anyone is inclined to run a stock trading firm, Bright is ripe for overtaking. Trust me, if these bumpkins can set up a successful gig like this, anyone could do it - and, unless they're even more inept than the Brights (scary thought), could probably do it much better.
Bright Trading is successsful in terms of signing up new traders. I wonder what is the in and out ratio? Number of new traders signed up vs number of traders blown out
"Originally posted by lidodido Donald, if you ever sit there in that cushy little office of yours, wondering dumbly why you take so much heat on these boards, ie, from real people making real comments (not just some "anonymous posters with a gripe", probably "planted" by your competitors, as you claim), let me tell you, it's comments like the above that fire many of us up. When you speak of the "success of the firm" Donald, are you talking about the success of your traders, or the success of the firm in signing up new traders? Of the latter, there is no doubt you've been wildly successful. 700 traders is quite an achievement. My hat comes off to you. Seems all that marketing by "attraction" (not "promotion") is really paying off. If you're speaking of the success of your traders, that's another matter totally. I'll ask you again. Post these freakin legendary numbers Donny Baby, post 'em up! Don't just say you've got 'em up your sleave. POST 'EM! Hehe, it's so simple ain't it? You'd think he'd just come out and do it! But nooo, not the Donster! Too many "compliance issues" eh Don ? Look, I personally know quite a few Bright Traders that are making money. A couple of them are making very nice money. According to them, it has pretty much nothing to do with anything they learnt in "training" (gee, why doens't that surprise me). Unless the Donster comes out and posts some REAL numbers up that show the success rate of his traders, nobody has any reason whatsoever to believe that a new trader has a better shot at success than anywhere else. (Don, "real" numbers would be, % of new traders making money after one year, % of traders losing money, % of traders who lost all. Nice and easy hey bud? Even you couldn't misinterpet that could ya Donny??) And, as I've stated a few times before, I personally believe that a new traders chances are actually probably less at Bright. What, with their ancient software, outdated "strategies" like OOs and "pair trading"* (where, according to the Brights (crazy but true!), you keep adding and adding to a losing pair until you either win or blow out - wonderful) and constant pressure to make a million trades a day (otherwise you're not "working hard enough"). Oh brother. From a business perspective, these guys have struck gold. From a trader's perspective, what a pack of arrogant bums. * at the "training" I attended in July (was forced to attend rather) they showed us this trader that they allege had made $200k in July from pair trading. Obviously this stunt was meant to wow us all into thinking what geniuses trade there at Bright (and get us signing those new trader forms). To anyone with half a brain, of course, the big number is meaningless. How big was the trader's account? How had he fared the other months? (Did he lose $10k a month for the past 6 , before hitting it big this month? etc etc) Perhaps most surprising thing about this story is the fact that this trader previously blew up a $50k account by continuing to add to a single losing pair is talked about in a positive light, as a triumphant success story! It's not shocking that a pack of know-nothing newbies wouldn't understand the patently simple concept of big risk=big rewards ( I have no doubt he had his big July because of making "bet the farm" size bets), but it's mind boggling that the Brights would ignore it. If readers are wondering, yep, I'm one of those guys that likes to "bumble on with negatives and personal insults". Notice, though, how Don never actually answers the accusation itself? Rather he always tries to deflect the criticism by attributing it to a "sour grapes" ex-trader or competitor? Oldest defense trick in the book. Pity there's always morons that fall for it, no matter how many times they see it. PS - let me offer a helping hand here Donster, because it seems you just don't "get it". Message boards are a fantastic way for a business to interact with its customers to find out exactly what their needs and wants are and to hear the customer's perspective on your business (which, as any businessman will tell you, is the most important perspective). Donald, you and the Bright brigade have an outstanding opportunity to learn from your customers here on ET, one that other business would KILL for. Yet all the feedback seems to be going to waste, since you don't seem to have any desire to take anything on board, you just sit back and defend what you've already got. Well, I guess you never struck me as the sharpest knife in the drawer. Note to others: if anyone is inclined to run a stock trading firm, Bright is ripe for overtaking. Trust me, if these bumpkins can set up a successful gig like this, anyone could do it - and, unless they're even more inept than the Brights (scary thought), could probably do it much better. " instead of just running your mouth why dont you take your own advice and start that firm and see how good you do. don already posts more in profits than 90% of the traders on this board in just the open orders.its easy to see in hindsite that they all were possible unlike others here.what do you post for profits?
It seems like this is a personal feud. I see no reason to make it public. Why don't you PM to each other ? I worked at Bright Trading and at that time it was the best deal around I could find. I did not know anything about trading and other companies I went for interview wanted $50,000 account, 3-5 thousand for training and they charged some insane ticket charges and I do not remember how many cents per share. Those companies are not around anymore for a long time but they spoke about my future profits as it was a done deal, just a matter of time. Needles to say that I would have been broke very fast had I joined them. When I came to Bright I met Eddie Franko who instead of talking about my future profits said why do not you ask me about how much you can loose, everybody wants to know how much they are going to make, that is a stupid question to ask, try not to loose first. This is all I want to say, they are not crooks, they are good people. Now I am trading with another company where I got better deal and better computers, monitors and systems but I do not have any hard feelings about Bright Trading. If they tomorrow come up with a better deal I would consider it for sure.
Don and/or anyone else, I can see that this thread has had some negative comments, but I have met people from the biggest prop trading firms and respect their skills and positive attitude. On the basis of that experience, I have considered going towards prop trading but have not managed to get a satisfactory answer to the basic question: why? 1. To learn how to trade? There are several good trading schools around and have attended some. I think I am a good trader. 2. To get leverage for my capital? After a couple of years trading stocks, I went back to school and learned how to trade options and then did the same thing for futures, which is the focus of my daytrading these days. So far as I can see, leverage is not an issue for a confident trader. Plus it is much easier to trade 10 ES than 5,000 SPYs. 3. To have an office to go to? Not relevant for me, I like trading from home, with a couple of good trading chat rooms on the side and more than a dozen trading buddies to interact with via the net or the phone. 4. To minimize costs? My understanding is that prop firms will not beat IB and TS prices - and I already have software coming out of my ears. 5. To get ongoing advice and long term money management guidance? That is so personal that I cannot possibly assess it up front. Over the years, the best money management guide has been my wife: "don't lose any money while I'm gone!!" Have I left anything out? It's a serious question, and I don't mean to joke about it. What could be the motivation for someone like me going prop? TIA.
Wow! The silence is deafening... And I thought I would have received a thousand interesting responses to this question already Anyone else from the prop trading folks here?
Maybe no motivation at all for you personally. But you seem to think that trading options is equivalent to "use of capital"...which it is not. OO strategies are the single most successful thing we as traders (on the whole) do every day. Regardless of all the BS above (not from you, but from those who have a very small sampling of anything to do with trading, and seem to have hours to key in nonsense, but that's another story)....trading strategies that are very successful are extremely "capital intensive" and it is a simple thing to figure out that if you have a good winning percentage, you will probably make more money with additional capital. Lack of capital is the number one reason most people don't make it as traders (per the traders themselves). As far as trading at home is concerne, or access to the markets, both are available at the better prop firms. Just for the record, I will still compare any firm's "win loss" record with ours, at anytime for new traders. Every time somebody gets on a tirade about us or me, they never, ever, have any real numbers from other firms to back up anything they say. So you can see why I get reluctant at time argue a "fool's debate"....from some unhappy soul. Our advanced training includes automation software, in depth review of correlated pairs, and (just for the record), our advanced classes change strategies regarding such things as adding to pairs, depending on market conditions. As far as your serious questions, if you have more, please PM me, and I'll be glad to respond. Also for the record, our 40% growth is on track again for the 11th year in a row....(that's for regulators to see, right in public view). Don