I'm sure everyone will be shocked by this... including tradex21... but Bright Trading and Echo Trading are "for profit" companies! Yes, it's true! Their goal is to make a profit... they do this by charging you various fees for the privilege of trading their money. Are they really "modern day bucket shops"? Ya, probably... so what? I pay all these fees... it's just the cost of doing business. Oh, btw, at these firms you don't pay ticket charges, just commissions. And how about this: "You have no pedigree, educationally or otherwise". I don't give a freaking rip what kind of degree I have... I'm making more money than ANY of my friends that have degrees and are working "real" jobs, and the last thing I wanna do is be a shill working for GS, MWD or LEH pumping their stocks to unsuspecting clients. As far as losing my deposit if they should go under, I just count that as the cost of doing business, too... I made up for my initial deposit many times over in the first year alone. Fletch
I did not know the "politics" of I leave and I can screw you - which is a typical trader attribute. Hello Marc Rich. I am at neither firm as I'll be blime to study for that 7 again. If what I hear is true echo is going commodities - I wager a dollar for a dough-nut Bright will get most traders back sooner or later. For every 1 LLC - 5 FCM goes under !!!! Think about it ! Later
andrasnm, Echo will only be offering financial futures (not all commodities) as a supplement to large traders with high acount balances, they want to compete with IB's commodities rates which are one of the lowest. The reason they are getting connected is so they will be one of the first firms to offer Single Stock Futures. They will still primarily be a stock trading firm. FYI - Bright has futures too already. -- Although, by your logic, maybe that explains why so many Bright traders have joined Echo? -Jim
judging by the recent replies, clearly firms like Bright and Echo are not for TraderX, or for those who don't see the outstanding opportunity they offer. I would be loathe to be associated with a firm that was "not for profit" and existed in the "trading business". How would such a firm operate or profit? The opportunity to trade OPM (other people's money) in a professional sense, with the high degree of "profitunity" one places oneself in line for is "rare indeed". These other trading firms have high ticket charges or other gimicks whereby the ticket charges are low, and the partial fills when completed represent additional ticket charges or some other innovative means of accounting -- are all doing the same things. One need draw the line on where in the pie they want their slice. Aren't we all blessed, or for some of the more orthodox faiths, aren't we all fortunate that we have these choices of where we'll "dine tonight" or "trade tomorrow". Hey, just keep it real.
Why the desk fee? Well Bright and Echo have no minimum # of trades that they require for their traders. If you were in an office doing 3 million shares a month and the guy next to you bought a 100 lot each day and closed it out, how would you feel paying $30,000 in commissions while this other guys pays $50. The desk fee helps make it so everyone pays their fair share for the cost of the office. These firms make their money from one thing the big volume traders. They are the guys who really pay the bills. The big volume guys allow for such low cost. rtharp
they are forthright... by telling you upfront, instead of requiring you to see the small print and prefortell the conditions which are hidden in that small print, you know what is required of you, and what you can expect from them. the professional and public firm that I'm with holds your initial LLC principal for 12 calendar months. Later on, one finds that should one further fund the account, then they also age those deposits for 12 months, and this could never have been understood at initial contract signing, it was burried in the fine print (although the font size was the same as other similar paragraphs - disclaimer). This has the nasty effect of putting a lock on one's remaining capital on matter whether you're profitable, loss-leader or flat, you simply can't just go walk across the street to another superior firm. I had one trader explain that the balances kept on file, while they earn interest, performs double duty by being counted in with their "capital" requirements. Given those issues, then no matter how much interest is paid on credit balances, firm wise, they are reaping a far larger "use" of those "customer" funds. I guess that's shrewd securities business principles. Bright disclosed what was a perturberance with most detractors and said this upfront. Pity Onsite, and a number of others, don't disclose these more finer points. And, afterall its ALL about the money, anyway.
Just a note. New Rules by PHLX and the SEC for capital contributions to an L.L.C. , require funds to be held by the firm for 1 year. Any traders profits can usually be withdrawn weekly or monthly(depending on the firm). These new rules were adopted by all SRO's. The L.L.C.'s did not vote for or against these rules, but are required to operate in compliance with all SEC or SRO requirement. Please read your L.L.C. agreements. Gene Weissman Lieber & Weissman Sec., L.L.C. gweissman@stocktrade.net
so Gene, initial capital contribution, must age for 12 months, however, any and all future additional capital contributions having to age their own respective 12 months seems beyond reasonable. I'm with Onsite, regrettably, and not with Bright. I was quite jealous of your firm, Bright, Echo, Hold Brothers, and so many others based upon what I read through these discussion threads. Interpreting the Phlx and SEC requirements in such a manner is both dishonest, loaded oneside against the partner-LLC customer and illogical. It is specifically this, that I'm in reference to and not appreciating my current affiliation, and issuing a warning to all available eyes to see regarding their agreements. Dollars to Donuts, most every trader in an existing LLC arrangement didn't have that understanding, and its now being "re-viewed" in the firms' favor.
The ECHOTrade agreement specifies that the trader contribution will be held for a minimum of 12 months, with a 6 month notice for an intent to withdraw from the partnership. Correct me if I'm wrong someone, because I'm really not into these conflicting signals I get in this game. "If you look around the table and don't see a sucker, then you are the sucker"
Limitdown, The L.L.C.'s do not like the new rules , but we must abide by them. Everyone of our L.L.C. members are told about the new rules. We feel L.LC.'s offer advantages for professional traders. If a trader can't stay with us at least a year, he/she is probably not a professional trader. Gene Weissman Lieber & Weissman Sec., L.L.C. gweissman@stocktrade.net