Breaking into physical commodity trading

Discussion in 'Professional Trading' started by Apollonius, Jan 21, 2017.

  1. I see a lot of ads for physical commodity trading in my country (Singapore), but all of them require a few years of experience, at the minimum 3 but usually 5-10. But I don't see any junior positions at all.

    How does one even break into this industry? Have to get into a graduate programme at BP or Trafigura or some other big company then transfer into a smaller trading house?
     
  2. birzos

    birzos

    Welcome to the 21st century, everything is obscured behind a wall of bureaucracy under the guise of free and fair markets with open opportunities, but it's for your benefit. How, you're expected to start in the mailroom and fight your way up, it whittles out the men from the boys. But I personally find that a complete waste of time, energy and life, if you have some capital you can set up you own trading house with an offshore company and 'work' for them, as long as you have the confidence and ability to match the expectations it will open up the doors.

    I used to be a senior management consultant in SAP, so I bought a license, yes it cost a lot, learnt one of the up and coming modules over a month, went in to a project and was the most knowledgeable, not just in the company but in the country, in a few months. But I have the ability to absorb information as lightening speed as I explore and make educated mistakes, if you are a worker it will never happen because you need to use the mailroom approach. It's an equally valid approach but it's degenerative by nature, the only variable it what it degenerates.

    The main problem is this, the world is full, and growing, of workers and they are desperate to keep their jobs. So they're not going to let any newbie come in and rock the boat, and even with juniors that's possible. They want to know you are a 'worker' by nature (years to decades of experience meandering along) or you are a 'fighter' but play the game (the mailroom), I'm neither and annoyed more than one C-Suite oil exec along the way, I'm smiling like a cheshire cat just thinking about it.

    If you fit neither of those there are a couple of options for you but it means you're an outlier, and you either need to go it alone or go via a transferable system, and there are very few in the world today who understand outlier approaches, even fewer who understand outlier and worker approaches. If you go via a graduate programme, unless you are the best of the best or have something they need and cannot find anywhere else, you will get nowhere fast, which means you need to coerce them to come to you.

    But don't take my word for it, I was just the architect and strategy advisor to the board of Shell and BP, among other things, working with their trading desk to streamline ops. There's something you need to understand, no one, including family in many cases, gives a damn how long something takes, how it will affect your health and lifespan by doing it the hard way, and how much of life you will miss in the process. That means the gap between junior (now mailroom or grad programme) and experience (3-5yrs at least) is becoming wider by the year, when it increases you need to put in more effort (compressing time) and take more risk to neutralize the gap. Which is why in 2017 it is becoming smarter to bypass it all and do it your own way, but that's another discussion topic because the bureaucracy firewalls your ability to become entrepreneurial.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
    Apollonius likes this.
  3. Sig

    Sig

    Attending a top 10 MBA program or the top MBA program in the country where you want to work will get you at least an internship which should lead to a job if you're good at it and the jobs exist. The MBA actually teaches you very little about that job but opens doors like you wouldn't believe. Alternatively, you can see if it's possible to get an internship of some kind. You have to get your foot in the door on these things, it's far more about networks than what you know. And the mailroom route is a horrible idea, imho. We celebrate those few cases where this works precisely because it is so rare. On the other hand, starting a company adjacent to the space is a great way to develop contacts and get a reputation. You just won't ever want to go back to being an employee afterwards as the previous poster stated.
     
    Xela and Apollonius like this.
  4. @birzos, you seem to have a very interesting background, could I PM you some questions if you don't mind? (Your PM seems to be turned off)
     
  5. birzos

    birzos

  6. Zzzz1

    Zzzz1

    Lol, right MBA solves everything. I have seen the same types with MBAs come and go within banks' front offices for more than a dozen years. Cocky, but not really hungry enough. Guess who stayed : the salesmen and the engineers. Both without MBAs. Gotta get the foot in the door. Right. Knowledge and fast and accurate thinking is key. Right. 2 years and 150,000 bucks wasted on an MBA? Priceless in your opinion. Not mine. Why not getting a Quant degree from a top school. At least you have not drank coffee for 2 years but have actually learned something slightly more challenging.

     
  7. Sig

    Sig

    Give it a break already, good lord!
     
  8. Zzzz1

    Zzzz1

    Why? I enjoy seeing my MBA friend getting all riled up over his inability to admit that he has not done much in 2 years other than schmoozeworking and dining out. Did you guys actually cover even the slightest stochastic calculus or was your focus on accounting? Am proud of the fact I never hired a single MBA onto my desk. It's called walking the talk.