Bread & Butter Iron Condors

Discussion in 'Options' started by cactiman, Aug 6, 2012.

  1. This is me....
    My history had been several ICs in a combination of RUT and NDX.... A hit to the market will impact all.... but at least I do not execute ICs on individual stocks.....

    I can say that after next week, I only have 15% in the market all in NDX ICs which expire in Sept.

    After reading this and a couple other relevant threads, I will start reducing my exposure.
     
    #51     Aug 8, 2012

  2. I'm only opening SPY Iron Condors these days, so there's no correlation involved.
    But I see your point about it adding to the "Total Risk" if there was!

    There's a SPY group expiring in every month from August-January.
    About 1/2 of them are completed (Top & Bottom Legs) and 1/2 with just 1 leg opened so far.

    The completed ones have various ranges, and the August 17th closers with Tops in the low 140s are worrying me at the moment.
    Could use a pullback in SPY before next Friday!
    :)
     
    #52     Aug 8, 2012
  3. Here's some stats to show the influence of Time & Commissions on the Percentage Gains and Risk/Reward Ratios for SPY 150/151/130/129 Iron Condors, with SPY@140.00:

    September:
    Mark Credit: .13 (.06 comm) = net .07
    % Gain: 8.05%
    Risk/Reward Ratio: 12.43/1

    October:
    Mark Credit: .24 (.06 comm) = net .18
    % Gain: 23.68%
    Risk/Reward Ratio: 4.22/1

    November:
    Mark Credit: .35 (.06 comm) = net .29
    % Gain: 44.62%
    Risk/Reward Ratio: 2.24/1

    I know the conventional wisdom says more time = more danger, which is why the Credit you receive is larger as you go out in time.

    But we're in a choppy to mildly uptrending market, so who knows where the SPY will be in 1, 2, or 3 months?
    What SPY does during the final month (week?) is what counts.

    So I prefer the lower Risk/Reward Ratio going 3 months out.
    It's enough profit to make it worth the risk, and you have plenty of time to get out for less than a Max Loss if things go really wrong.

    I still don't feel comfortable risking $87.00 to make $7.00.
    Too much risk for too small a reward!
    :)
     
    #53     Aug 8, 2012
  4. How do you calculate commission of .06? This is $6/contract, correct? If you pay such commission, run away from that broker. Others charge a lot less.
     
    #54     Aug 8, 2012

  5. Quite right, though I remember back in the late 80's paying a few hundred dollars in commissions to buy 100 shares of stock!!
    Times sure have changed.

    No, that's $1.50 per Option Contract at thinkorswim.
    Each leg = 2 Options = $3.00 x 2 legs = $6.00 per IC.

    Very important to factor in the commissions with multiple contract trades like Iron Condors.
    When you only make $13.00 gross profit for a September IC, $6.00 in commissions is 46.15%!
     
    #55     Aug 8, 2012
  6. If you trade SPY, then 10 spreads is probably your minimum to make any meaningful return in absolute terms.

    These are the brokers and their commissions for 10 spreads:
    TOS: $60
    IB: $28
    TradeMONSTER: $20
    OptionsHouse: $18.5
    eOption: $16

    You're paying way to much.
     
    #56     Aug 8, 2012
  7. Whoa! I thought t.o.s. was the best deal in town, and it's the worst!
    Thanks for the info.
    :eek:
     
    #57     Aug 8, 2012

  8. Looks like there may be a catch at tradeMONSTER:

    Options $0.50 Per Contract*

    * The commission is calculated by counting the total number of contracts across all legs. The charge is $0.50 per contract, with a minimum commission of $12.50 for single leg orders and $15.00 per spread for multi-leg orders.

    :confused:

    Does this mean the first IC costs $15.00?
    Or does it mean the first 7.5 ICs cost $15.00, then they're $2.00 each after that?
     
    #58     Aug 8, 2012
  9. For 10 ICs (40 contracts) total tradeMONSTER commissions are 40*.50 = $20. $15 is a minimum for spreads.
    If you sell 1-7 ICs, your commissions will be $15; for 8 ICs it will be $16, and so on.
     
    #59     Aug 8, 2012
  10. I'm really enjoying this thread.

    I have a question on TOS commissions, specifically Options on Futures.

    On this page ( https://www.thinkorswim.com/tos/displayPage.tos?webpage=servicesOrderTypes&displayFormat=hide# click on Futures tab, fine print below table) it says $3.00 per contract inclusive of exchange fees, whilst on this page ( https://www.thinkorswim.com/tos/myAccounts/displayRates.tos# click on options tab) it says $9.99 + 0.75 per contract for Equity or Index Options.

    None of these rates are close to what you mention, and indeed I was put off from checking further by the high rates.

    For a simple buying of a call or put, what should we expect the commission to be? Is it tied to a volume scale?
     
    #60     Aug 8, 2012