Brand new this

Discussion in 'Psychology' started by lilduckling, Jul 10, 2005.

  1. JA_LDP


    To the OP:

    This thread is lame. Everything said here is so cliché and has been said a thousand times before by a thousand other traders. I'm a new trader and, even though it’s all true, I'm sick of hearing about risk management, finding your personal strategy and that 95, 97, 98 or 99.9% of people fail (everyone says a different percentage).

    Yes, this site is good at times but many times I come on here looking for new information and don't find any because there are so many threads and posts exactly like this one. If you really want to help new traders out, actually discuss and help us learn about the markets instead of just telling us they will eat us alive.

    In case you were wondering, I was making money swing trading within the first month of opening my account (about 4 months ago).
    #41     Jan 22, 2006
  2. lilduckling,

    are u one of Jack's aliases?
    u kind of have the same verbosity.
    #42     Jan 22, 2006
  3. What makes this thread diffrent is its poster. Where i came from.... how i started in life. Dirt poor. I came to this country not knowing a word of English. Have trouble with math. No financial backround what so ever. Worked in a dead end "sweat-shop" for 15 years. Odds were / are extremely aginst me......thats what makes this thread diffrent. Congrads on making money on your first 4 months of trading.
    #43     Jan 22, 2006
  4. Making money is easy kid. The hard part is keeping it.

    I just want to say that each time I read the original post, it has been a great inspiration. I have read it 4 times already.
    #44     Jan 22, 2006
  5. THANKS RIPLEY !!! :) :)
    #45     Jan 22, 2006
  6. Looks like you started when you came back to MSU this fall. I recommend doubling your equity curve a bout 8 times. I started out the same way you did except for the first month.

    My first doubling was in about eight months with my original capital. I added half my 135 dollar a week pay check as well so that was doubling at the same rate as my original capital.

    What month did you get to breakeven after losing for the first month? Like you I kept all my money in the market all the time.

    In today's market, as a beginner, I would estimate that you are doubling about twice a quarter once you begin to make money swing trading.

    You might want to consider moving over to commodity indexes soon. The volatility and leverage are much better than the swing trading you are doing.
    #46     Jan 22, 2006
  7. The University of Wall Street doesn't hand out diplomas.. not to anyone, no matter how successful some traders may be. Trading for a living is the essence of lifelong learning.
    #47     Jan 23, 2006
  8. I always thought that "quants" held such diplomas.
    #48     Jan 24, 2006
  9. Thor


    Yes, I did think the same thing. Could you provide some more details on how you approach swing trading?
    lilduckling, excellent thread here.
    How did you finally solve the problem of stops?
    I started trading recently and find that a lot of my trades are stopped out with a 5% stop. The few that continue don't make enough to cover the lost trades, so how did you ovecome this?
    #49     Jan 25, 2006
  10. Thor1..... im not trying to be mean or anything but, me laying out my exact procedures really wouldn't benefit anyone, as i've stated before. And please keep in mind, this thread is in psychology, not strategy.

    Like i said, for a long time, I too was asking many traders, to please give me the stragety they use. They never would... all they would say was " you must find a method that works for you". I always believed they were just snobs towards me... until i saw the light and realized what they were saying all along was true. wether you get it for free, or pay for it through a service, any and all information from a trader or advisory service you like buying an entertainment center... yes... you get the wood, glue, and screws..... but YOU assemble it at home.

    My original post is what happened to me over along time.... towards the end..I kinda new the markets... but still couldn't make $$ cause i was still using the rules i was told as a new trader.

    Having said that... the problem i had with stops was that i had it in my head that they must be as small as possible. That "new " traders should always ALWAYS only take trades that offer 3:1 r/r ratio. It never dawned on me... that this "advisory service" also had its own brokerage, would even offer discounts in their training newsletters if you switched over to their brokerage firm. Hmmmmmmmmm new traders should only take trades that offer 3:1 ..... could that be because... oh, i don't know.... because you will get stopped out more often???? naww it couldn't be..... advisory services are good guys... they would never do that to a new fledgling trader.... would they?

    What targets are easier to hit... trades that are 5:1 r/r.....3:1..... or 1:1?
    If new traders should only stick to 3:1 or higher r/r.... well then, what the hell....why not just take trades that offer 10:1... or 20:1..???

    New trades are told the opposite of the truth.. only the most experienced traders have the keen eye to spot and execute high r:r ratio trades.... not only are they very very good in reading market eternals... but they are also working on multiple time frame set-ups simultaneously... thats how they get high r/r. They are masters in what they do. New traders will just be stopped out. It wouldn't bother me if the advisory services said the truth.... "only stick with 3:1 r/ wont make any money, but...because you are new and don't know will keep you alive, and we get our commissions."

    You must not confuse the two things....

    So far..... most everyone here has misread my original post!

    People are looking for the answer on how i became profitable with strict money management......... I didn't"T.

    Strict money management just keeps you alive longer.... you will constantly get stopped out... but the losses will be small. Wont take much to win the $$ back.

    You will only start to show a profit after you have the experience. Strict $$ management just keeps you alive long enough to get that experience... just like i stated in the original post. But no one wants to hear that.

    I disregarded the 3:1 r/r mantra that was ingrained in my head AFTER...repeat AFTER i had put my time in and had experience to read the mkts better... i simply didn't get stopped out as much, quickly regained all the money i had lost.

    To make money... you need the experience... the experience will allow you to take 2:1... 1:1...and even inverted r/r ratios!! You will be able to learn new methods and ideas 100 times faster than when you first didn't have the experience.
    Also.... after you start getting good.... please forget about the dumb.... batting average and R/R ratio arguments.... IT doesn't MATTER if you are pulling in a 4:1 sharpe with a crappy 40% win ratio.. or a poor 1:1 sharpe with a 80% win ratio... BOTH are money makers. To me, i now prefer the higher batting average... i believe its psychology better for me. Versus going weeks at a time with no profits.... waiting to score on that high r/r trade.

    To get the experience, you need time in the markets.... no other way around it. They ONLY way to stick around long enough, is through strict money management.... I.E. take the higher r/r trades..... obey stops...etc...just don't think you will be making any money.

    Its a two stage stragety..... strategies that i flip flopped after i knew enough about the mkts.

    So to clear it up.... if you are asking me how did i become profitable... I stopped trying to find only the higher r/r ratio set-ups, the ones that kept me alive in the mkts for so long but never showed a profit, and just started taking higher probabilities ones. I took 2:1......1.5:1...... and even 1:1, because i recognized what a good probability set-up was. A new trader trying this will get killed... because he/she wont know what a good probability is versus a bad one. Two set-ups that look exactly the same can have very different odds.... depending on mkt eternals, the sector...and momentum in its higher time frames...etc. I also abandoned the set-ups i learned through this advisory service... they were out dated.....i took alot for me to break free from them... the people i believed in for so long.... the ones i believed with all my heart were the real deal in the business. Its like when i hatched... they were the first ones i saw ......I have also left stocks and went into Emini Dow.... tired of playing the earnings surprise.... upgrades/down grades.... company news... all things that will take a good set-up that you're in and whack it till you get stopped out.

    Any new traders reading this ..... don't believe anyone that tells you that if you do what they do or follow a certain technique, you will make you money... they will be lying... you must put the time in.... don't know any other way to say it.
    #50     Jan 25, 2006