See, I think that classifying someone as conservative or liberal is the fallacy. Where I live I am liberal. If I were to go to NYC I would be conservative. Very few people (I hope) could becategorized as one or the other. Having politcal parties (especially only having 2 dominant ones) is destroying this country. It should be popular vote between at least 3 individuals in the end. No parties involved. If they all have a similar platform, so be it. That should be a pretty good indication that they are more in tune with what the people want. Right now I am forced to choose between repubs or democrats and the candidate can't do or say anything that might lose the support of his/her party, even if it is the right thing to do. Ridiculous. We need to quit classifying people. I do think you are right on the scouts having militaristic roots. But militaristic and evil are not synonymous. The roots are there to promote unity in overcoming challenges and self-sacrifice for the success of the group. Honorable qualities if you ask me.
I'm not trying to convince or convert anyone to my way of thinking. Just putting out some food for thought where the reader can decide for themselves. FAMOUS SCOUTS UNITED STATES Henry "Hank" Aaron, Baseball Superstar (Boy Scout) Bill Alexander, U.S. Representative from Arkansas (Eagle Scout) Gary Anderson, U.S. Representative from New York (Eagle Scout) Neil Armstrong - Astronaut & First Man On The Moon (Eagle Scout) Charles Bennett, U.S. Representative from Florida (Eagle Scout) William Bennett, Former Secretary of Education (Eagle Scout) Bill Bradley, Pro basketball star and U.S. Sneator from New Jersey (Eagle Scout) James Brady, Former Press Secretary to President Reagan (Eagle Scout) Milton Caniff, Comic Strip Artist "Steve Canyon" (Eagle Scout) Bill Clinton, U.S. President (Cub Scout) Walter Cronkite - Journalist, T.V. commentator Willaim Dannemeyer, U.S. Representative from California (Eagle Scout) William C. DeVries, M.D., Transplanted first artificial heart (Eagle Scout) Arthur Eldred, (First Eagle Scout) Daniel J. Evans, Former US Senator and Governor from the state of Washington (Eagle Scout) Gerald Ford, 38th President of the U.S. (1st Eagle Scout to become President) Harrison Ford, Actor (Life Scout) Murphy J. "Mike" Foster, Governor of Louisiana (Eagle Scout) Bill Gates, Founder of Microsoft (Life Scout) Richard Gere - Actor David Hartman, Actor (Life Scout) Bruce Jenner - Olympic Gold Medal Decathlon (Cub Scout) John F. Kennedy, U.S. President (Star Scout) Gary Locke, Governor of Washington State (Eagle Scout) James Lovell - Astronaut (Eagle Scout) Richard Lugar, U.S. Senator from Indiana (Eagle Scout) J. Willard Marriott, Jr., President, Marriott Corporation (Eagle Scout) The office of Mr. Marriott has asked that Eagle congratulatory letters not be requested. Branford Marsalis, Jazz musician (Life Scout) William McCool, Space Shuttle Columbia Pilot (Eagle Scout) Jim Morrison - Rock Legend (Boy Scout) Sam Nunn, U.S. Senator from Georgia (Eagle Scout) Merlin Olsen, Actor, Pro Football Player and Sportscaster (Boy Scout) Ellison Onizuka, Challenger Astronaut (Eagle Scout) H. Ross Perot, Self Made Billionaire and Presidential Candidate (Eagle Scout) J.J. Pickle, U.S. Representative from Texas (Eagle Scout) Samuel Pierce, Former Secreatry of Housing & Urban Development (Eagle Scout) Eddie Rabbitt, Country/Western singer (Boy Scout) John Ritter, Actor Richard Roundtree, Actor (Boy Scout) Nolan Ryan, Pro Baseball Player Alberto Salazar, 3-time winner, NYC Marathon (Life Scout) Harrison Salisbury, Pulizer Prize winning Author (Eagle Scout) John Schneider, Actor/Singer (Cub Scout) Willaim Sessions, Former FBI Director (Eagle Scout) Howard K. Smith, Former ABC-TV commentator (Boy Scout) Steven Spielberg, Film Director/Producer (Eagle Scout) Mark Spitz - Olympic Gold Medal Swimmer (Cub Scout) James Stewart - Actor (Boy Scout) Wallace Stegner, Pulitzer Prize winning Author (Eagle Scout) George Strait - Country/Western Singer (Cub Scout) Percy Sutton, Chairman of CBS (Eagle Scout) John Tesh, TV Celebrity (Eagle Scout) Joe Theisman, Sportscaster, former NFL player (Life Scout) Peter Ueberroth, Former Commissioner of Baseball (Cub Scout) Paul Winfield, Actor (Cub Scout)
man is confusing rank and merit. Ranks in scouting are leadership oriented positions. They start with assistant patrol leader (a patrol is 8 persons and equipment such as gear is set up for individuals and groups of indiviuals. The group is a patrol. It is an English term. The green bar is the leadership ranks above patrol leader on up to scout master. Spieling them out for the record is not needed here. Master sounds like something oppressive to man apparently. In cubbing there are advisors as leaders and often women do this since cubs are children and the name cub is related to following a parent's example. So leadership is related to ranks. The general orientation is the oath and the law. 12 precepts that closely relate to the topics of Benjamin Franklin's autobiography. He used 13. The merits of going from tenderfoot to second class to first class and then the three levels of merit badge accomplishments: star life and eagle are a very mellow trip for any young person to take. After eagle palms are added ad nauseum for most eagles. God and Country is an other endeavor as is the Order of the Arrow which is more bestowed than awarded as are all the merit levels. The military hang up of man is not going to go away. Its cool. When I meet people on Sierra Club service project or doing exploring on United Nations World Heritage programs or projects, I count on scout training to be part of the essence. It is the same all over the world. I must say that my evolvement in emergency medical care came from learning and doing first aid in scouts. It led me to the red cross training and water safety training. I did have to pay medical malpractice until recently. Now I am too old to do EMT trauma. My feelings of military come from EOP aids and the need to get it right at all times and not from scouts. It will be good for your kids to not be in scouting. It is not a good idea for them to be under the situations you will create even though others will be very supporting of your kids. There are many many other outlets for infomal learning when a person is young. During my youth scouting was a terrific thing and a lot of kids did scouting to various lengths of participation. Being in the scouts is not being in a service it is being in a neat outdoor and indoor kind of life. Frankly, I often cite the merit badge program as the best learning experiences of my life. The counselors were really neat, interested and informed people who really set standards of merit and accomplishment. I built a boat for seamanship merit badge and for sure it had to float and go places.
"It will be good for your kids to not be in scouting. It is not a good idea for them to be under the situations you will create even though others will be very supporting of your kids." That says it all.
We built a raft out of lumber and 55 gallon drums stuffed with Styrofoam. We lived on it for 9 or 10 days one summer while cruising the Chickamauga Lake and Hiwassee river. Now those were some good times.
I'd be more worried about creeps molesting the kid. Teachers coaches and scout leaders are where they go...dats where the kids are at. I'm up here in Canada - we are so evil and godless with our free healthcare, our lack wars and gun violence. Please liberate us! I mean, who will pardon our criminals? Who else but Blackwater will privatize the military? We need a Carlyle group to keep us in line. Also I'd like someone who was not elected to contol our money. Like the Fed. Elections scare me, I'll let big brother un-elected Fed rule our lives. Also, not enough of our leaders are citizens of Israel. We could use more of that up here. god, err I mean g-d knows they are looking out for you. I don't want to think for myself or be bothered with facts. If a president tells me to hate a certain group, and to kill and torture them, I will! I will expect the world to sing songs of praise and throw flowers at me feet. Need I go on?
cant you be arrested for that hate speech up there in Canada or is it just certain hate speech? Did you have to think about it before you posted?
please, we don't have to go out now and look for criminals who started as scouts, do we? such lists are lame arguments if you ask me.
very good post. though i would see the classification thing in a different light. i am among many of my friends the rightest guy they know. it depends where you are on the range of someone's spectrum that qualifies you for one or the other. my take on scouts is that you can have the pros without the cons and while i respect and appreciate merits, ranks, flag parades for adult soldiers i find it inappropriate for ten year olds to grow up with. in my opinion one needs to distinguish between good and bad qualities of an organisation and while the spirit, the activities and so forth of scouts are very much ok, i still don't want my child to believe that human comradeship, outdoorfun and trusting each other depends on a militaristic form of organisation. that is the whole point i am making.