its reading stuff on a forum like this that makes me happy that i have chosen to learn about futures and not options! but in confusion - there is opportunity - now there's a dangerous thought
MSKL, 1) I am not sure where you got that example out of what I said; I would agree with what your point, but can not relate it to what I said. 2) Don't think so, you may be missing the newest kink. 3) Disagree in the majority of cases. 3a) Their seat prices have completely tanked, wonder why? 3b) new rule or not that has been going on for a while, you have to keep up. Quote "I don't mean to offend you but crossed markets are mainly the result of customer orders resting in the marketplace, to say otherwise would be well.............. " You are wrong. Quote "I look at about 1,500 of the most active options. I would say that about 85% of locked/crossed markets are the result of a customer order sitting in one of the books. About 14.9% the result of technical issues." Looking at only 1500 active strikes is probably the reason you disagree, you are looking at a fraction of what I am talking about. Quote "Please show me where as you say, "strikes are locked/crossed for hours" by market makers................... You post the cases right here!!!" You will have to develop your own data base if you want to see it.
MSKL, Do you work for the CBOE? The last time I had a discussion about these issues argued so fervently with the same slant as this was with some CBOE members.
Why doesn't someone contact one of the exchanges and see if an OBO would contribute to this thread. I'm going to ask around myself. Otherwise why don't all of you pro traders pony up the cash needed to purchase a seat or even rent and see WHAT THE REALITY IS!!!! But here is the view of one super rich floor trader who works all day long to abuse and rip off the customer orders that come into the pit. Oh and I also pay off the exchange under the table to collude with me. How do you guys think I get paid? It's called order flow, hello, which we do pay for. Do you have any idea what it costs to pay for order flow? Try standing in a pit that sells THOUSANDS of puts in Delta, Northwest, United the week before 911. I could give you endless examples of ILLEGAL customer, BD, customer/BD, BD/customer, (you get the idea), paper that comes to the pit all week long, especially in a fast market. Raise your hand if you know what a haircut is. It's embarrassing to see posts by people that have no idea what they are talking about.
1) you said, "If I send an order with the wrong price, they will pick me off". The differance is you can't sell below the NBB or buy above the NBO but you expect market makers, if they make a mistake to sell below the NBB and buy above the NBO. How much can a market maker sell below the NBB to make you happy? 3a) seat prices have tanked because we have better access. A couple years ago we had access to about 15% of orders, now we have access to about 50% of orders (when not locked/crossed). And this will only get better. b) the rule was approved awhile ago but was just implemented on many of the stocks I trade Friday. This rule involves ABP. If I remember correctly you were not even aware of ABP. I noticed this change in about 15 of the most active equities on Friday. If you were an active trader then you would have noticed as well. no database required!! You show me ONE example on an active option where the market is crossed for hours by two different market makers. humor me............... I don't work for the CBOE, I argue for equal access to all customer orders. This provides liquidity to the marketplace for all speculators/traders. That is why we should trade. Picking off market makers is not my style, especially when it is an obvious error in the price. I just don't consider that part "trading". It appears that under your rules, (I'm really not sure what your rules would be) market makers would leave their posts.
1) Don't blame us if you paid too much for your seat! 2) Interesting to see, this guy admits it. He pays for order flow, so he doesn't want guys like us to trade this order flow! How dare you compete with us!!! Anyone got any tissue???
MSKL, 1) Referring to either: a) market is 5 X 5.5, want to sell @ 5.4, hit buy @ 5.4 instead, entry error, get filled between spread but net result is doubled up on position, $400 loss on 10 lot. b) want to buy 10, buy 100 instead, entry error. Both examples are the costs of doing business to us, however are bustable on the floor for "clerk entry error". Honoring their own quotes is the issue. 3b) someday I will be an active trader. Sent you a PM about the examples. Under most rules you post it you trade it.
We gave up our seats, the view is better upstairs. Do you know what a professional data feed, multiple T1s and PTPs add up to a month? Customer fees? Infrastructure costs? A lot more than $200K to buy a seat, or $1.4K a month lease. Since we have an active member of the CBOE here; why: 1) do you put up a market and not honor it? 2) sit on cancels until the underlying turns against the order? 3) use the bust rules to trade after the fact?
mettoox Since we have an active member of the CBOE here; why: 1) do you put up a market and not honor it? 2) sit on cancels until the underlying turns against the order? 3) use the bust rules to trade after the fact? i have not got a clue about most of this debate - but i can answer the above they do 1 to 3 because they can!