Both parties not serious about deficit; $750 billion wasted per year in health care

jem · Dec 23, 2012

Quote from kmgilroy89:

The Dems sold out to big insurance, the Reps sold out to big pharma earlier in the decade, everybody else has gotten screwed.
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agreed.

BSAM · Dec 23, 2012

You boys are indeed coming along nicely.
I keep reminding you that government is not your friend.

Also, never vote for a democrat; never vote for a republican.
Either way, the government wins.

zdreg · Dec 24, 2012

Quote from piezoe:

Had the public option been retained I could have been somewhat more enthusiastic. That was a major cost control feature, but the Republicans killed it.

just like national health in the uk or canadian health where costs controls force t people to go outside the system for timely healthcare.
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nutmeg · Dec 24, 2012

Quote from piezoe:

Perhaps it is time to acknowledge that and recognize that capitalism is less well suited to some sectors of the economy than others.
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I don't know for sure but I'd guess that the profit incentive has produced some mighty fine diagnostic equipment and medicines. We need to pay for brain power and individuals who sacrifice hours and hours of study need to be compensated accordingly.

On one end of the scale a drug company could reap millions in profits as a result of a breakthough medication. The opposite end of the scale could result in 10x the savings in costs to society.

iceman1 · Dec 24, 2012

Quote from tmarket:

Getting health care costs better controlled is one of the keys to reducing the deficit, the biggest domestic challenge facing the country. The report did not lay out a policy prescription for Medicare and Medicaid but suggested there's plenty of room for lawmakers to find a path.

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Not just health care costs but in all branches and departments of government!!!

Absolutely if we got rid of the waste, inefficiency, corruption etc. etc. it would be a great start.

PHOENIX TRADING · Dec 24, 2012

Quote from iceman1:

Not just health care costs but in all branches and departments of government!!!

Absolutely if we got rid of the waste, inefficiency, corruption etc. etc. it would be a great start.
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That's just idiotic wishful thinking"waste, inefficiency, corruption etc. etc" is an inherent characteristic of govt.

Gezus, you people want to take a bath without getting wet.

piezoe · Dec 24, 2012

Quote from zdreg:

Quote from piezoe:

Had the public option been retained I could have been somewhat more enthusiastic. That was a major cost control feature, but the Republicans killed it.

just like national health in the uk or canadian health where costs controls force t people to go outside the system for timely healthcare.
More...

Choices, of course, involve tradeoffs. The British have been struggling with problems in their National Healthcare system. The Canadians seem to be doing somewhat better. The German model is interesting -- the oldest universal care system. Highly successful systems include those in Singapore, Finland, Norway, Netherlands, and Australia. These successful systems, based on access, health outcomes and patient satisfaction relative to cost, vary in the extent to which the private and public sectors are intermingled.

Incidentally, it seems to me that Obomneycare is more or less taking the U.S in a direction toward the Israeli model-- but I admit that may be a somewhat strained comparison.

I have said elsewhere, but I don't mind repeating it, we could do a lot worse than to simply study these other successful systems --using a truly independent commission that scrupulously avoids conflicts of interest -- pick the one we like best, and copy it.

Obomneycare is still evolving. It is not too late to modify or change it. But there is no way we are going back. It's a waste of time, money, and breath to attempt to repeal Obomneycare. Debate should focus on how to make it better; let it evolve into something outstanding by the universal measures of healthcare systems. It is usually an advantage to be last to do something, assuming we're not so pig headed as to preclude learning from the mistakes of others.
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piezoe · Dec 24, 2012

Quote from nutmeg:

I don't know for sure but I'd guess that the profit incentive has produced some mighty fine diagnostic equipment and medicines. We need to pay for brain power and individuals who sacrifice hours and hours of study need to be compensated accordingly.

On one end of the scale a drug company could reap millions in profits as a result of a breakthough medication. The opposite end of the scale could result in 10x the savings in costs to society.
More...

Yes, agreed, essential to preserve incentives. Judging from the outcomes in a number of countries we can safely say that the incentives there must be adequate.

jem · Dec 24, 2012

please dont shovel this crap off on Romney.
This garbage is only on the party which voted for it.
Obama and the dems. no one else.

Quote from piezoe:

Choices, of course, involve tradeoffs. The British have been struggling with problems in their National Healthcare system. The Canadians seem to be doing somewhat better. The German model is interesting -- the oldest universal care system. Highly successful systems include those in Singapore, Finland, Norway, Netherlands, and Australia. These successful systems, based on access, health outcomes and patient satisfaction relative to cost, vary in the extent to which the private and public sectors are intermingled.

Incidentally, it seems to me that Obomneycare is more or less taking the U.S in a direction toward the Israeli model-- but I admit that may be a somewhat strained comparison.

I have said elsewhere, but I don't mind repeating it, we could do a lot worse than to simply study these other successful systems --using a truly independent commission that scrupulously avoids conflicts of interest -- pick the one we like best, and copy it.

Obomneycare is still evolving. It is not too late to modify or change it. But there is no way we are going back. It's a waste of time, money, and breath to attempt to repeal Obomneycare. Debate should focus on how to make it better; let it evolve into something outstanding by the universal measures of healthcare systems. It is usually an advantage to be last to do something, assuming we're not so pig headed as to preclude learning from the mistakes of others.
More...

jem · Dec 26, 2012

Quote from zdreg:

Quote from piezoe:

Had the public option been retained I could have been somewhat more enthusiastic. That was a major cost control feature, but the Republicans killed it.

just like national health in the uk or canadian health where costs controls force t people to go outside the system for timely healthcare.
More...

where do people get this partisan bullshit? this is the 3rd or 4th time a person on et has said crap like ths. we hear stuff like this from dems all the time. they try to blame Obamacare on Republicans.

not a single republican voted for Obamacare. Therefore they did not kill any provision. had the dems put single payer up for a vote... some Republicans would have voted for it... I believe many businessmen would love to get healthcare costs off their balance sheet and therefore some Rs would have been pressured to vote for it.

Single payer was killed by the insurance companies who owned the democrats and told them what they could pass.

Neither Obama nor any of dems had the integrity in the end to stand up for the only type of health care which could have improved things for individuals and businesses.
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