As far as I know, Georgo Soros is very smart man who just came back from visiting China last month, and set up shop on planning for unlisted companies in China. Without China threatening Taiwan, US will always has difficulty to export its arms. Jesus, US and China are working very close together to rule the world. Don't forget Chinese can defeat United Nation in 1950s, kicked India butt in the 60s, then screwed Vietnamese in the 70s. Thorough out human history, all superpower weakened from within. China is no exception, however, Chinese had already experienced self-destruction so many times already. We all have been read those stories about that European will have grave difficulty of credit crunch, however, it is still just "stories". And despise numeric times, talking heads have been talked down on EUR, Eur holds pretty strong.
your defensive posture on this attack is misdirected ByLowSellHi, simply did as your last paragraph mentioned, gave greater voice to one of the minions of analysts that neither invest, risk nor profit from their prodigious (i.e. worthless) words.... your respectful disposition to defend all things Asian, and in this case China is also misdirected. the very thing that the western countries have as a fault with communist countries entering the general marketplace remains their artificial control (in common economics its called a demand economy) over their GDP, economic reports, regional and industry production report as well as company reporting of their economic impacts (demands for raw materials, products produced, products sold, expenses, profits, etc.). one thing that came to mind, recently on the general business channels (Fox BusinessTV, BloombergTV, CNBC (ughh) and others) were the boastful news reports of "all is well" within the Chinese borders and production zones (major cities mentioned in these articles).... wonder why, when the world is pulling in its demand upon production centers, there are reports of "all is well": hmmmm
The US appears both as 2nd to each of the largest trading countries in the world, and also 2nd behind those whom you mentioned first with each other. The logic of your question (premise) is whether or not the US matters. In basic economics, someone has to get, start and maintain the ball (flow of trading between countries) going. That is where the US plays a roll. From within the borders of the US looking out, we loathe all those shipping vessels coming to our shores. We loathe buying through Walmart, all those flawed cheap consumer goods, now increasingly made in China, not to speak of where ever else they are made. We would much rather prefer the factories reside domestic US, where the employment opportunities reside domestic US, and the tax dollars, and the consumer dollars and the health benefits and the regulatory and legal controls reside domestic US, and where the domestic citizens of the US benefit first. We used to supplement our purchases with the occasional overseas foreign items. We shifted the means of production to other countries in lieu of shifting warfare and civil unrest. We employ entire counties, regions and areas of the world based on our consumer purchases. Brazil, Europe, India and the others that you mentioned would not have the currency to trade internationally if the US were not first buyers of their resources. How does the world repay the US, 1) through cinicism 2) through trade barriers 3) through NAFTA and other lopsided trade agreements 4) through narrow perspective commentators like those quoted here 5) through all kinds of other barriers against US exports... so, don't be surprised when the US stops buying that the whole thing continues to grind down to almost a complete stop, as it has been for the last year or so....
I'm not an American but from what I've observed over the years your comments have a general ring of truth! Regards Johno
a) I never defended ALL things Asian, I am not Asian nor any Asian freak. Point me to where I defend Asian culture in general b) if you have an issue with the way China conducts business why dont you write a letter to the government or their lawcourts but dont address me please. I never started any arguments about human rights, law enforcement, treatment of foreigners, or any other such issues. I leave them to the liberals who can't get enough of those topics, I simply have no interest in those.
had a good laugh but thanks for reminding the rest of the world how thankful we all need to be to the U.S. Couple comments a) My logic was not to demonstrate whether the U.S. matters, it was to show that the importance the U.S. in international trade is playing is declining. b) You simply do not even understand the economics of your own country how do you want to grasp the much deeper complexities of international trade? American companies shifted production abroad because it enabled them to produce cheaper, thereby undercutting competitors in the price of the finished product, simple as that. The American consumer would never be able to pay the prices for all-domestically manufactured products. Japan is an economy that still has a relatively high share of domestically over foreign produced products. This is only possible because the savings rate in Japan is way higher than in the US, thus enabling consumers to pay higher prices for the goods they themselves purchase (non-discretionary). The U.S. consumer will not stop buying Chinese manufactured products, how could he/she? Where is the money coming from to suddenly purchase Japanese, European or American products? You are dreaming if you really think the U.S. is controlling the world. Fact is that with the outsourcing and globalization in general the complexities are growing exponentially and inter-relationships are far reaching. You can clearly see that government financing, trade, intelligence, warfare, pretty much all aspects of human life have become a two way street. By the way, in case you sense any sort of hostility towards Americans whenever you travel abroad, could it be the arrogance that you seem to be a very good representative of? Most people don't like to be mislead through rosy advertisement but products and services that do not keep the promise of an earlier marketing campaign. Corporate America and to a large degree the government is a master at marketing, it sure rings up the register but dont be surprised when the consumer gets disgruntled when he/she was lead into false expectations. If you dont get the connection I simply urge you to just think a little longer. Peace...
asiaprop, dont bother i found out long time ago you can never discuss anything china with this crowd. It's either china is going into great depression tomorrow or china is killing all of their citizens, etc... They dont have a clue or just refuse to see it. China right now has the most stable currency and tremendous growth potential on all markets. The stock market is coming back nicely, and you have to wait on lines to buy real estate again. Just in the last 6 months, my condos around the 2010 world trade expo development in shanghai doubled in price, and not due to leveraged no downpayment mortgages. Most real estate are cash deals, with some traditional 20% down mortgages. Then there's the chinese government is near collapsing. When in fact it's one of the few countries without debt, has a huge reserve, and actually applied the stimulus properly - meaning all of it went into infrastructure/job building, instead of bailing out banks/failed cars. Ignoring everything, at least your investment will be in yuan instead of dollar or euro.
I refuse to think in terms of extemes the world simply does not function like that, I dont think the USD will be replaced tomorrow but I believe it will for sure decrease in importance. Re China, its ok, I know most who comment about China have zero clue, they only read something in the news or harbor a deep resentment to the way China conducts domestic and foreign policy. They never travelled nor lived in China. And the only support to their arguments is anectotal evidence, such people would fail any statistics exam. Everyone has a right to their opinion I just dont like, as you correctly pointed out, when some here pronounce the end to China's economic growth. This is simply nowhere supported in fundamentals nor technicals. They can argue and scream as much as they want about human rights violations it just does not change the fact that in a decade or so the U.S. will be taken over in terms of GDP and many other economic measures. Nothing points to the contrary. It just surprises me how ignorant a lot of people are. China has already sold off 70-80% in this bear market. The recovery since March has left everyone in awe and those who claim there are thousands of bubbles that will blow up any second are generally those who are short since March and need to talk their books. About your comments on the money injection I could not agree more with you. The US government and Federal Reserve has bailed out its lobby groups and has in turn sold out its citizens. China instead acted like a pro while the U.S. policy appears short-sighted.
my bad (as we hip traders say now-a-days) don't take offense, rigourous, vigourous economic discussions which lead to a mindset or predisposition towards taking a trading position or obtaining an edge or a filter in which to view current news events from, is what I derive most from these threads... enough said, because when I return to the pits, to engage in one of those most enviable of American industries, namely "price discovery", I need some means to filter world events with.... either way, happy trading to you too....