block trading...how is it?

xflat2186 · Sep 18, 2007

Quote from jack hershey:

For me, block trading is a required technique for a stream of capital.

I consider my position in a stream of capital a block since it meets the definition by its size and my trading strategy, PVT or sector rotation. Both require that I exit or enter according too timing. Timing the markets is a very very high priority for me for making money.

Also, I feel that my trading should not have an efect on a market because, as I see it, if I were to have an effect, it could only be adverse to me.

My workaround on this problem is to use market information to allow myself to stay below the radar. I do not do the executions in detail personally.

When I trade a block, the ratio of buy to sell (long trading) is 20 to 30 approximately.

I use partial fills to complete the transaction. Their size is determined by the trade sizes going through on the T&S. My instructions to the broker are to trade that size or slightly lower.

The rate of partial filling is determined by the cummulative volume during that day. A 10% of cummulative volume is maintained as the amount of shares moved by partial fills to get the whole block moved.

To time the trade, I start the trading on the day the peaking of price will be occurring and when the volume will be high as well. The effect is to trade into the peak across the peak and then finish as the peak has passed. To exit 100,000 shares takes about 4 hours when the total volume of the stock on the peaking day is 1,1 million shares. I have a 100,000 upper limit for trading.

A good reference is Gary Smith where he notes his best trade of 900K net. His comments are more comprehensive than this note of mine.

I understand that my posts are difficult to understand. Another blog reference is up where the blogger explains a comment by Faith on why writing like mine is explained by a poor thought process and the inability to express concepts or ideas.

Here, I am explaining an idea in the context of practice. I'm sure most people will find it a poor expression. That is fine with me. If a person is trading streams of blocks approaching 100,000 shares and the person can leave 200,000 a trade on the table as a consequence of trading limitations, then he will understand the post. Posts like mine which just express personal experience are probably messy simply because the experiences are messy, another proof of a mind that lacks clarity.

I hope as many people as possible can put me on ignore. I, at this point, have no hesitation to put a person on ignore as soon as I find his comments are in the B category.
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ROFLMAO

jd7419 · Sep 18, 2007

Quote from jack hershey:

I use partial fills to complete the transaction. Their size is determined by the trade sizes going through on the T&S. My instructions to the broker are to trade that size or slightly lower.

Jack you let a broker handle your stock orders but you are in and out of the es like a bat out of hell. Why? Buying and selling stock is far less complex than sct right? What you are doing is like saying that you are an expert moto cross racer but can't ride a bicycle even with training wheels. Please clarify?
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stock777 · Sep 18, 2007

Welcome to the Hershey Highway.

Jacks Father?

xflat2186 · Sep 18, 2007

"I understand that my posts are difficult to understand"

Thats a classic!

jimclark · Sep 18, 2007

<b>
When I trade a block, the ratio of buy to sell (long trading) is 20 to 30 approximately.
</b>
Can you clarify this?

lindq · Sep 18, 2007

Quote from stock777:

Welcome to the Hershey Highway.

Jacks Father?

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No, that's Jack's broker.

xflat2186 · Sep 18, 2007

Quote from jimclark:

<b>
When I trade a block, the ratio of buy to sell (long trading) is 20 to 30 approximately.
</b>
Can you clarify this?
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Actually he cant because he assumes that he knows who initiated the buy side and the sell side of the trades he sees printing and there is simply no way to know.

stock777 · Sep 18, 2007

"Those that comprehend the insistent meaning of contemplation of trend, will rectify the inversion of p&l in all timeframes"

Jack

Marcell · Sep 18, 2007

Does block trading in stocks affect the share price and result in longer fills? Say, for a stock with average volume of 1 million+

I'm still trading small sizes and wonder where the limit in day trading might be until it gets disadvantageous.

jack hershey · Sep 18, 2007

Quote from jd7419:

Quote from jack hershey:

I use partial fills to complete the transaction. Their size is determined by the trade sizes going through on the T&S. My instructions to the broker are to trade that size or slightly lower.

Jack you let a broker handle your stock orders but you are in and out of the es like a bat out of hell. Why? Buying and selling stock is far less complex than sct right? What you are doing is like saying that you are an expert moto cross racer but can't ride a bicycle even with training wheels. Please clarify?
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My arrangements may not be very good ones for stocks and for commodities.

I have never ridden more than a bicyle except to say that some students have taken me on motorcycle rides out in the country where we had residences (Upper Bucks County, PA)

My best day was done under instructions to a broker. 31 trades in the 28 dollar range netting an average of 17 points. Each trade was about 3000 shares. A few were plus or minus 3000. Is this bicycling with training wheels? Probably. 11 accounts were involved and the traades were distributed over the accounts to keep them fairly balanced in the sense that each account made same %'s.

The commodities markets are relatively slow for me. In 81 five minute bars I would only trade up to 40 times. That is an average hold of 10 minutes. To view this simply do the crayola test on a five minute chart. Add the segments.

My amateur manual sweeps (to get data sets) range from 5 to 20 times slower than professional's do.

Compare me to Greenspoon who trades, as Steenbarger states: "60 times a day for less than one tick average on a 400 contract block. (24,000 units day)." Greenspoon, thus, makes 2 to 3 million a year.

My up to 40 trades compared to 60 trades by Greenspoon are in great contrast. He makes less than a tick on average (meaning he is winning and losing and getting a net). He is in an out meaning he enters and exits. I do not enter and exit, I merely reverse occasionally from an all in all the time vantage point.

I am riding along, occasionally reversing. It is not moto cross nor bicycling with traing wheels. I do not need engine power nor training wheels.

Timing is what I concentrate upon and it only invloves two things, the status of the market's mode: "continue" or "change".

The status of the mode almost the whole day through is "continue". Up to 40 times I experience the "change" mode.

As you see I evoked a ROTFLMAO response from a contributor in ET. It is laughable to me for him to type this phrase.

Many people who know me are laughing reading this. They know what I mean by "change" in the keenest sense imaginable in trading.

A change for me is done like seeing a fast ax film of a bullet going through an apple. I know the frame when my opportunity to do "change" is arriving, happening and passing. I used to have to let the phone dial release in a timely manner to deal with a 10 step each way three times call regarding completing cards.

Since the invention of the PC times have changed. MY OTR charts have dwell times as volume builds. Trading is all slow motion......and to the tick of the turn.

Blow your 81 bar chart up to OTR ticks and take a #5 scalpel to the paper and just cut one layer of paper down the center of the BBid/BAsk pairs with forty sweeping and accurate strokes that define making money for one day. It isn't moto or training wheels, it's sanding your Shield's class hull with 440 emery wet/dry while the sloop is held by a 70 ton crane who's time is loaned to you as a courtesy.

I do not care if anyone understands what I post. I understand and DO what I post.

I am just an amateur that can handle the capacity of what and when the market offers and I have plenty of time to see and know the value of the turns to the tic. Its called fun and it is there to do every trading day on the calender.

Doing entries and exits in commodities makes me ROTFLMAO at people who cannot DO it.

If a person can't instruct his broker to run his timing on capital streams loaded to the max, then I am ROTFLMAO at him.

I made my models. I put them in my mind. I trade using sports memory and I can write down and explain every sweep of my eyes and mind when I am trading at the highest money velocity the market offers from open to close.

My emotions are support, comfort and confidence all of the time. I cannot imagine how many times I have taken my initial capital out of the markets over the last 50 years.

People who trade as I do, pass it forward to others.
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